Disorder in Leeds

@cakeorwine We all knew exactly what he meant.
Romania might not be the sub-continent but it is a foreign land and they do things differently there.

To please Pedantic Pollys, he should have said

"We are used to the politics of the sub continent being played out in Leeds and other UK cities and now we see another group, who don't agree with our values, joining in the affray."

This is exactly what was happening to children in Glasgow and authorities were very slow/hesitant to act, which is shameful considering it is clearly a massive child safety/welfare issue.

In no way to I think every Roma family was doing this to their children, and I do understand that the Roma community experience prejudice and racism (a lot of work has been done in Glasgow to tackle this) but no one should be ignoring children being forced to sit alone, in the cold and rain, begging for money.

We should never be in a situation where raising concerns about children and their safety and welfare is seen as racist.

So when Farage saw the incident in Harehills - why did he use that to say the politics of the subcontinent are playing out on the streets of Leeds?

Last time I checked, Romania wasn't on the sub continent

I don't think it is racist to say that the politics of the subcontinent are playing out in the streets of Leeds.
It's also happening in other parts of the country like Leicester and Blackburn.

What's racist about it? It's happening. We can all see it's happening. Why is it it racist to say it's happening?

Or is it completely made up?

If it was made up, it would be shit stirring but it's not made up and if you don't think it is then that's simply because it hasn't come to a city near you...yet.

Even if you live in Chipping Camden, you must have seen the new Asian councillors and MPs shouting their election was A Win for Gaza-that's the politics of a foreign land being played out in the streets of the UK.

In Harehills, it was Roma yelling racism. A 'community spokesperson' said taking the children away was systematic racism. Bollocks.

They may not take children away in places like Romania-look at those dreadful orphanages under Ceausescu-and so they think they are having a foreign society's values forced upon them and they don't like it. But that's all it is. They're out of step with the values of the country they're in. That's tough shit on them.

Now, Leeds authorities will say they will work with them listen to them- instead of telling them to obey the laws of this land and not run riot when the law is applied to them.

I'm actually amazed but pleased some of these fuckers have been arrested but I'll show my arse on the top of Selfridges if they are sentenced to jail time-the authorities are too frightened they'll riot and frightened of being called racist.

The dad is going on hunger strike-of course, he's hoping the authorities will cower, pander to him and others will riot. I say, go on hunger strike-who fucking cares!

I bet social workers won't be removing any more Roma children and who can lame them, if they think it might cause a riot and they;ll be questioned to see if there was racist intent.

You rarely get petty/violent crime or disorder in a city like Dubai because a) there is a very strong and resourced police force and b) it simply isn't tolerated.

Here it's the complete opposite.

There was channel 4 documentary showing roma kids in E Europe being dropped on the street and forced to beg/pick pocket, placed into these horrifically unsafe scenarios. I think we need to not fear being called racist when it comes to safeguarding.

Yes, that is racist. From an individual and no doubt other individuals.

The principle still stands though. Equality and the expectation that everyone should obey the law.

Two tiered policing is part of the problem.

Everyone needs to be treated the same. Grooming gangs going on all over the place because the police don't want to be called racist by challenging them. It doesn't matter if you're Muslim, Roma or a Leeds United fan - you should be equal under the law and the law should apply.

The law is soft in this country, generally, as an added problem. The prison crisis exacerbates the issue - shoplifting and burglaries are practically decriminalised.

Is it racist when a prominent MP tweets about the incident saying "The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds. Don't say I didn't warn you."

And yet it seems to involve some members of the Romanian community?

Maybe that MP needs a geography lesson?
Or he just jumped to conclusions and decided to tweet about it to inflame tensions?

Is that racist?

The people shouting racism are themselves racist. They are, in fact claiming that people of different races should be treated differently, which is racism. What any sensible person wants is equality and for everyone, regardless of race, to be held to account for breaking the law. It doesn't matter if these people are blue, orange, purple or cerise, they've neglected their children and harm has occured. Now their supporters are tantrumming rioting because they aren't getting their own way. I might try that. See how far it gets me.

I know how it works. I live in an area where a particular demographic get away with crime and anti social behaviour and people are frightened of them. The Law applies to everyone.

David Starkey aka he of "so many damn blacks" fame...

Anyone who thinks that Mothin Ali is a hero here is seriously deluded. He has openly supported the Hamas atrocities and olds antisemitic views. The Green Party should be ashamed to have him as one of their elected councillors. It is clear that he has been elected by a community who are pushing a different agenda from the general population.

Social services don’t take 4 children away for shits and giggles- arguably they aren’t able to intervene until things are very bad indeed. I thought the statement from the council was quite appeasing in tone as well. They should be standing up for their social workers and if they’re not, there will be fear of intervening in the future and more children will go under the radar.

Did they really think rioting and aggression was the route to showing they were responsible parents to social services? The journalists are asking about how they are feeling, the pain they are suffering rather than asking why the kids were taken away in the first place.

Bit late for that

I can’t work out why the thinking is ‘they don’t have jobs and so become a nightmare for the local community’ rather than ‘people who becomes nightmares for their local communities also tend not to work’.

Exactly. Just look at the pictures of the young (and not so young) men trying to set the bus on fire.
Destructive, no respect for others’ property, and at the same time not particularly bright, since they aren’t even trying to disguise their identities while being filmed.
Or is it because they’re actually proud of what they’re doing?
Not exactly dream employees in any case.

I don't think we should speculate on the baby or other kids in the family. They deserve their privacy.

Is the baby actually still in hospital? I remember reading it somewhere.
People are also saying the family wanted to go to Romania with their remaining children - does that mean they’d leave the baby here?

I have actually watched it, despite my hatred of Own jones.

I found it quite interesting. but not surprising.

What I did note was that it was good that he was there on the ground. But given that he arrived at 6.30pm and the disorder carried on into the night. So people didn’t listen to ‘community leaders’.

Oddly he didn’t mention the bus. He said he arrived and the car was overturned. Describes the crowd as very anger, then angry but settled then accuses other groups of coming in from outside the community from right wing sources and setting it off again. Will be interesting to see where the people live, that have been arrested.

It’s interesting that he refutes the there’s tension between communities there and that the people who live there are upset about the lack of opportunity. Which is understandable. But there is tension between communities.

But again saying things like ‘they don’t have opportunities so have a lot of time on their hands’ is just trying to absolve people of responsibility. I assume he means they don’t have jobs. I can’t work out why the thinking is ‘they don’t have jobs and so become a nightmare for the local community’ rather than ‘people who becomes nightmares for their local communities also tend not to work’.

Money and schemes have been ploughed into that area for decades, to try and improve it and there’s a large minority that don’t want it. Why does ‘having too much time on their hands’ become an excuse for anti social behaviour?

It’s also quite odd because if you look at figures for the area, the vast majority are employed. I don’t know wether that stat comes from HMRC or just surveys using a small number of locals and extrapolating.

And I don’t see how any of this is an excuse for trying to stop neglected children from being removed, acting in threatening ways to social services and police. Tipping up police cars, setting fire to buses etc

No.

Exactly ! A baby had serious head injuries hence SS intervention and removal of the remaining children from the household.

They were planning to leave yesterday to go to Romania with the children to evade SS hence what we saw on Thursday police had to go in and get them for safety and to stop them doing a runner.

Family didn’t like this/don’t like authority so this all kicked off …pics of him drunk all over social media.

Thanks to social media so many photos out there of those setting fire to the bus, burning stuff etc and inciting trouble so it should be easy to round them up !

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo I think the perception of unfairness is a good point. ‘Cultural norms’ are fine as long as they don’t impact on others or are seen as excuses for unacceptable behaviour.

From what I am hearing the child didn’t fracture their skull the day of the riots. That’s what started SS involvement. But it might not the whole story.

I also saw a report that said that incident happened a while ago, then this has happened. We are, quite rightly, unlikely to know the ins and outs. Just it’s difficult to compare 2 situations.

If both situations are investigated, then not having the same outcome doesn’t mean it’s not fair or that there’s bias in it.

and I think, reading the thread, living nearish by and having family in that area the whole problem is ‘we need to understand culture norms’ because to a lot of people what that’s saying is that there’s rules for some people and not others, depending on wether it’s a cultural norm or not.

As op said, there’s another protest. I have seen mention of it but can’t say it’s definitely right wing organisers. But the point of it is that people feel there’s a two tier system. To be clear, if the demonstrate and cause damage and harm to the area then they are also shit heads, like the people from Thursday night. But it will be interesting to see the police reaction.

But we have one side claiming their children were taken because of racism and the other that feels that there’s. Two tier system. And then, the shit heads on either side that will use the issue to cause chaos.

But everyone is feeling like there’s unfair treatment. It’s a mess.

Owen Jones has posted an interview with Mothin Ali if anyone's interested.

I am not suggesting that, just describing what the photos published in the DM showed.