Disorder in Leeds

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo. I think you have totally misunderstood my post. My colleagues have frequently removed children and would have had to have a court order or police order to do so. I am well aware of Star Hobson (in a neighboring LA) and all other high profile cases where CSWS have failed. I live in fear of letting children down this way. Since the last government were in power our team of 11 social workers has been cut to 6 and the area we cover expanded to 4x the size. We are an outstanding authority for child protection but we are running on fumes.

Supporting services have been cut to the bone, same with the police and health visting etc. The majority of the work we do is working with family's to prevent it getting to this stage. Social workers, the police, schools and health visitors etc mostly mostly really successfully with a good outcome despite all of the above.

We also have now have to do a lot of work around CCE and CSE as there are no other agencies to take this on. On top of this, there are no placemets for children who come into care so I can spend several hours a day filling in placement requests then sitting with a child/ren in McDonald's until late at night every few days as they bounce between carers. All whilst having to do the day-to-day referral stuff. It is the same for all other agencies.

But why move to another country then, if you don’t trust their authority figures, don’t accept their rules and want to live your life according to your own traditions?

I think you're becoming a touch confused. This often happens when someone tries to defend the indefensible.

No matter, I am leaving my house soon-on a street occupied by mostly people born and bred in England. I expect to return tonight and not find a bus burning at the end of my street and rioting crowds.
I shall be calling on my parents-who live in an area populated by mostly Italian people. I do not expect to find an upended police car at the end of their road and rioting crowds.
If I did, I would not take pride in the fact that it was handled in a few hours with no fatality as you seem to take pride in with regard to Harehills. Your bar is low.

Riots should not be happening at all and, if they do, the police should stamp them out.. Community leaders are not needed. We have the police. It is not escalating the matter to impose law and order, although clearly the police, dealing with the Harehill community-thought it was.

These communities cannot act like little principalities with their own leaders. It should be made clear that they are not the norm here and they should have to accept it or leave.

Of course, all this shite is too far gone now. They know they answer to no-one but their own and they have been encouraged to believe they are entitled to do so.

Anyway, if I do see any buses burning in these English or Italian communities, I'll be sure to report back on how they banished the police and waited for their own community leaders to come along.

I guess ultimately because they dont trust the authority figures in this country, and they want to stick to their own ways of doing things?

Does any one know the age of the oldest child left in charge of the baby ?

The majority did not try and out the fire out.

Some did. Quite a few in fact. But many many stood there and watched it like entertainment.

willstarttomorrow I live 5 mins from Harehills. My DPs grew up there. I’ve lived in Leeds my whole life. I do think Mothin Ali was doing his best to put a stop to the trouble. I do think Community leaders are important as they know the issues, mindsets of their local populations and know how best to speak to them in a way that resonates. However the police needed to take more action so that people like Mothin Ali didn’t have to put himself at great risk.

My dps family live there. I and they disagree. It’s not sensationalist.

The original flash point was people threatening Social workers. That’s your colleague/s?

The original flash point was some children being neglected and a community believing they don’t have to abide by the same rules as everyone else and serious child issues should be ignored by authorities.

Did Leeds social services miss Star Hobson being murdered?

Removing the children wasn’t the ‘flash point’. Or at least it shouldn’t have been.

I am mixed race and from Leeds. My mother and father aren’t from England. I lived in the area in the early 2000s, after the 2001 riots. People didn’t even want to drive through at night. In the middle of the afternoon a car in front of me had the roof down an adult male threw a milkshake at the driver. Luckily the driver kept control of the car. Had it have mounted a pavement children would have been killed. Children who are from that community. Who was hostile to the adult man who threw the milkshake? What was that flash point?

Many of the people who live there are great people. But do you know what’s happening? They are moving out.

The hostility that’s risen in the last decade, who is it aimed at? Because there’s been hostility in the area for at least 20 years. Or is who it’s aimed that’s changed.

The respected community leaders didn’t de-escalate it. I have seen evidence that one did. And he does lead the whole community though his job suggests he should.

I live further out now, again, in an area that’s known for being fairly deprived. There’s crime rate is low. Me being not white hasn’t been an issue, plenty of non white or non British people here and that’s not causing problems. But the next village along, had had loads of issues because a hotel on the outskirts has been filled with immigrants ands crime is rising. Of course people are becoming hostile towards them.

I can’t believe a Social worker, who works in this area is so nonchalant about what happened to their own colleagues trying to do their job and help children who were in a bad situation. Or are you claiming the children were not in a bad situation and you know who you work for is targeting Roma children with no evidence?

@OlgaBracley Do you live in Harehills or East Leed? If so I look forward update on your understanding of local politics and management of community resources and relations in a city that has seen funding cut to the bone over the last decade. Also please full us in on your better understanding of community policing.

There were several social media posts showing respected local youth workers, community leaders and a local concillor mediating to end the disruption WHICH THEY DID. However in this era of the internet and total idiots believing anything on the internet, (seemingly people with no actual critical thinking), they were tagged as them being part of the disruption. The area is where St James hospital is (where I have worked) and there were there were fake posts about doctors etc joining in. Only an complete idiot would fall for this, right?

Most people did not join in- the majority of the community filled bins with water and out fires out and de-escalated the trouble. But of course you know better how to handle this stuff. So please put yourself on standby with your megaphone for future disruptions and obviously superior de-esalation skills. The fact it was dealt with in a few hours with injury or fatality really is irrelevant .....

I don't really care if they rolled out Ghengis Khan-why do they need community leaders at all. Is it because they will only listen to people of their own ethnicity?

Why don't they listen to the police?

@OlgaBracley best post on this entire thread and talking sense …we’ve pussyfooted around for too long and police need to get tough …no normal person torches buses and police cars. People trying to downplay it …🤬

@OlgaBracley Do you live in Harehills or Leeds, of so update on your understanding of local politics. There were several social media posts showing respected local youth workers, community leaders and a local concillor

OlgaBracley

I totally agree. You can wrap this all up in fancy paper and put the behaviour on the streets down to attitudes to immigrants, deprivation, inequality, cost of living crisis, the pandemic, xenophobia etc etc - there is no excuse for what went down . It’s indefensible. There has always been inequality in opportunity and education, racism, poverty, lack of social mobility. There always will be. The majority don’t decide to pop out and set their sodding neighbourhood alight and throw missiles around.

Well said and spot on @OlgaBracley .👏

We used to live in Leeds and I’d go back in a heartbeat as Yorkshire folk are so friendly.

We have friends and still visit we were there only a few weeks ago.

I booked a manicure and it was in Harehills I thought it was in Roundhay as the address was Roundhay Road. Well, if I’d have known I’d never have gone I got the shock of my life I didn’t feel safe in my car and parking I couldn’t get out of there quick enough.

It doesn’t look like or resemble the U.K/England it was dreadful and felt very intimidating. Couches on the street with men drinking a nasty vibe and it was like a slum …sorry to say that. 😟

I parked and the salon I went to the girl was lovely just the location on the main high street Roundhay Road was the issue I half expected to return to my car and it be on bricks …it was so down at heel and beyond grim rubbish overflowing rubbish on streets houses boarded up with metal shutters …

I felt scared in broad daylight and it was horrible it’s not vibrant …it’s a hell hole is only way I could describe it which is so sad …😞

@OlgaBracley Couldn't have put it better myself.

We always seem to be getting back to self-appointed "community leaders" setting the agenda, don't we?

@OlgaBracley well said. This pussy footing around by the police is pathetic and dangerous. The community leaders rule the roost and they know it.

I really cannot let this hogwash pass.

You say most just found a bit of trouble and joined in.

So, when was the last time you came across a bit of trouble and joined in? You write as if this a common thing. Let me enlighten you...you may think it's a good night out to go looking for a bit of trouble and join in but most of us don't. So, please don't present this as if it is perfectly normal.
It is not.

Also you say respected community leaders came along and de-escalated?
Really-who is your respected community leader then? Alf from number 62? Doris the Chair of the Allotment Committee?Most of us do what we're told by, you know, the police. Why do these new arrivals need community leaders. It's bollocks and it needs to be discouraged.

These fuckers didn't listen to police-in fact they frightened the police so much, they-as you rather disingenuously say-they monitored it rather than escalated it.
Why on earth would trying to restore law and order be seen as escalating.

If the police stop you-say for a driving offence-do they have to be careful not to escalate the matter, fearful that you will kick off? maybe they do-you might be one to kick off but with most of us, the police don't have to worry about escalating matters when dealing with members of the public.

They should have escalated it by using water canon-on them and the buses but of course they didn't-they waited for a community leader, as these people will only listen to one of their own, not the police force of the country they have elected to live in.

You say you and your husband, as immigrants, were never shown any hostility and neither have I or my immigrant family. You say hostility it has got worse over the last 10 years. Do you think that might be because of attitudes of immigrants have changed?

You really have scored an own goal by saying you and yours settled and being puzzled as to why these people haven't.. Put your thinking hat on and ask yourself could it be something to do with the fact that you didn't ignore the police and set fire to buses?

I don't like calling people animals but if you behave like an animal, expect to be called an animal. Grown men, setting property that doesn't belong to them on fire and then roaring in the streets about the fact that this country cared enough to keep their kids safe.

Harehills is not a vibrant area-although the burning bus lit it up-maybe that's what other posters mean. It is a dangerous area and any who doesn't think it is, must be comparing it to Gaza but comparing it to many UK suburbs it is a dangerous area.

Finally, don't insult many people living in poverty. I'm sick of people whose only crime is not having money being condescended to by people who think they must be natural thieves and thugs who riot and scream. Most do not.

Cheap shot. Stop it.

I don’t care what anyone says, that was child abuse. And in my opinion, it wasn’t dealt with quickly enough
I have to agree @Littlebluetruck
The parents didnt want the children to be educated they wanted keep them as dumb as possible so as to use them to beg & steal from others. Educated children might be able to see through the parents and get a better life for themselves.
Probably the parents just dont know any better😕

Around 12 or so years ago, in Glasgow, there were Roma children begging on the streets. It was a really shocking sight - probably not seen here in Scotland since the Victorian era.

I will never forget the first time I saw it, a young girl, no older than 10, and appearing to be on her own. I was not the only person to call the police that day. This wasn’t an isolated incident either. Young children were also being sent into restaurants and cafes to steal. I was with a colleague when her phone was taken. A young boy came into the restaurant with a card saying something along the lines of “I don’t speak English, I have no money and I am hungry”. He placed the card over my colleague’s phone for us to read. He then picked the card back up again and took the phone with him. I and many others working in the city centre received countless emails from our employers urging us to not leave phones on tables on our lunch breaks and to keep our handbags on our laps.

All this went on for quite some time and then it abruptly came to a stop, presumably due to police and social service involvement.

A subsequent report found that Roma children were not being sent to school and, if they were, they were being removed after their primary education was completed.

I don’t care what anyone says, that was child abuse. And in my opinion, it wasn’t dealt with quickly enough.

Which basicallv means social services will never dare to interfere in the welfare of their children again.

Community leaders calling this “persecution” shouldn’t be given the time of day. We have a duty to ALL children living in our country.

Just to add, sometime when we remove children police have to be involved. Wider family and community may arrive but usually it does not kick off to this extent. I have had to hang on until the tazer team is available before just in case if a family member is known to be particularly violent. This event is a result of people looking for a bit of trouble. not the immediate family. Of course families and connected people are upset, their children are being removed. Most are, the 'if you live here them accept the law/social services ' stuff is unhelpful. It kicked off because people came looking for a bit of trouble.

I am a front line CP social worker in Leeds and have been for nearly 20 years. Leeds is an amazing city, although has areas of deprivation as all cities do. Harehills is one of the most deprived areas in the city (and country) but has several families and young people from many communities just getting on with their lives, somewhere that rent is affordable in times where rent is beyond lots of working class people. I used to work in the area and it vibrant and there is a lot of community spirit.

The media reporting (right wing press and tabloids) is sensationalist. It was a couple of streets, most people who got involved had nothing to do with the initial flash point but found some trouble and joined in. Respected community members de-escalated (yet posts on social media saying they were part of the violence). The police did the right thing and monitored rather than escalating things (as a city we have been using a restorative approach for several years. One of the reasons Child Services is Outstanding).

Talking about people in this community as being 'animals' or making statements about how they are 'just on benefits' shows a complete lack of understanding of what the most vulnerable and impoverished in our society lives look like. Well done for being born somewhere where you and your children are not at risk, had opportunities and there is (was) a basic safety net. Leeds has a history of immigration, it built the clothe trade. Both late DH and I come from families who came to the UK as refugees and have settled. However the hostility shown over the last decade is is shocking. I have met very few people who are 'just here for benefits', yet some how this keeps getting trotted out.

I saw all that wailing and pretend roaring in the clip that @justasking111 linked.

What a load of shite. Surely the only reasonable response is to throw a bucket of cold water over him and the others forming some sort of banshee chorus around him.

I wonder if anyone who is allowed to go out on their own swallowed this nonsense. If they did, they should no longer be allowed out unless accompanied by a parent

Baby P
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Baby P

We have to let social services act in the best interests of the children, regardless of what the parents think is right.

I don't think it's fair to expect to go and live in another country and not obey the laws of that country. We have child protection laws here and we all have to make sure we follow them or we'll lose our kids.

I don't think segregated communities are a good idea as they don't promote integration. I think more education is needed for people coming here. I don't know if people are given education or just leaflets or even nothing at the moment.

So true where I am they are making life uncomfortable staring at females intimidating behaviour…they are housed in a v nice hotel in a nice area. They spit on women in summer clothes…it’s scary when you see every day the ones arriving by boats all young males which we seem hell bent on allowing to stay to the detriment of our own safety .

it’s a ticking time bomb and am v fearful …