Disorder in Leeds

No. In this case authorities were doing the right thing. Safeguarding children. These people don't want to follow rules and they are angry that they or their buddies had to deal with the consequences.

Why should they not be shown? Do they deserve special identity protection?

Did she go to work after leaving her baby on the sofa or perhaps just nip into the other room? Of course details matter if you want to make balanced comparisons, unless you just wish to demonise middle class mums.

As far as cultural norms, presumably no problem if they do not breach UK law. For instance sexual discrimination is a cultural norm for some, should that be accepted here as a retrograde step after all the efforts over many years of women fighting for equality?

I have seen across social media that the far right is protesting in Leeds tomorrow in a bid to stand against 'two tier policing'. This was never a race issue but it has now become one thanks to all those who jumped to conclusions and fuelled racism.

I work in the field and can say that many look to Leeds as setting the bar for practice with a lot of things 😅 I know that the legal team at Leeds is one of the most experienced I know and it has a good reputation all round. However, one thing I will say is that on the ground there isn't enough understanding of cultural norms and practices. I have seen many a times the demonisation of others cultural norms but also the turning a blind eye and giving leniency to others. Can't comment on this particular case as I have zero knowledge of it but I do know of others where there for example a middle class mum who worked in the healthcare field left her baby unsupervised on a sofa to be pounced on by the family dog. The baby fell off the sofa and fractured their skull. It was ruled an accident and the child returned home shortly after.

Perhaps before attempting to educate people on prejudice, you should address some of the arrogant prejudice and insults in your own posts.

Read them back and think on it, perhaps it does not even register with you.

Definitely last post-
I work in a predominantly white working class area. One estate has a number of 4-5 bedroom homes. It is as impoverished as Harehills. There have been similar disruptions in the past but it has not made national news. There are 'community leaders' - who have worked within the community for several years to deliver youth services etc and are respected by young and old, including church ministers. All work closely with the police to try and tackle gang violence (which is mainly child exploitation- crimimal and sexual) The racism within this thread because Harehills is a 'Brown/Black/Roma area is shocking.

You are right, our way of life is possible because of our norms & laws, our culture. People who want to benefit from it must also accept the norms, laws & culture that make it possible.
Being as charitable as possible I suppose we can say that we all have impulses to revert to they way we were brought up and as a host country we should place more emphasis on insisting people integrate?

Last comment on this thread. The press are reporting that a Roma family had their children removed- the baby having a non accidental injury. In cases of NAI removal is standard IF there is no way to make children safe whilst assessment is ongoing.

The fact the family is reported to be Roma is irrelevant in this case. I have worked with several Roma families who have settled here and they are kind, caring, good parents and intergrated in their communities. There is a huge current if racism running through this thread.

I have reason to go to central Europe and Balkan countries several times a year. The racism against Roma people is horrific. Many live in ghettos with no proper utilities. Because of my skin tone people 'joke' to be careful as people may think I am Roma.

Just asking, as there is a huge level of racism displayed here, if a few of you can stop and think before Roma = bad.

It's always a bunch of asshole young men who think it's fun to fuck stuff up. They're selfish, entitled pricks who think they can do whatever they like. The majority of people just stand around watching but there's always a few who just will take any excuse to cause trouble. There's no point to it beyond impressing their sad little mates and thinking they're big men.

I was in Canada when the Vancouver riots were happening over the ice hockey. No one could put that down to poverty or being disenfranchised, it was about incredibly immature dickheads who followed the crowd and thought it was a laugh. I think it's really offensive to blame riots and lawlessness on poverty, most poor people wouldn't dream of behaving like that.

Blame it on too much testosterone, too much immaturity and too many selfish, entitled pricks..

marshmallowmix
Not me-

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo We will leave it here. I hate threads which go of tangent because people get side tracked.

I have no idea why you have got it into your head I have no feelings for my colleagues (some of whom I have spoken to). I also have no assumption people grow up in safe loving homes- I certainly did not. My initial post was not even to do with social work.

I posted on this thread because people who I expect do not live in, or know Leeds, let alone Harehills were whipping up and joining the media frenzy. It was not good, not pretty but no where near riots and 'lawlessness' that people want to make it out to be.

@marshmallowmix
Land mass is irrelevant. Despite the shit show that was brexit, GDP still puts us as one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Which is shameful really considering the levels of poverty. The right wing press and last government have whipped up a huge amount of hatred for immigrants pre and post brexit. For anyone who bothered to do research pre brexit, the financial contribution made by all the people from overseas was far larger than any drain on public services. But now Europe gets to send back all the inactive pensioners who could retire somwwhere and use the health services and our children cannot work/study/travel easily in Europe anymore so we have won!

@willstarttomorrow didn’t like the truth so got my post removed …👏

why was my post removed explaining country sizes compared to the UK?

Who said I could do the job? I have a professional role that I studied long and hard for. If I wanted to be a social worker, I would be one.

I am not moaning about social workers or saying they are all bad. I am saying your, personal, attitude and view of situation is out of touch. And if that’s the view of who you work for there’s an issue. That doesn’t mean there’s an issue with all social workers. Or are you all clones of each other that think the same?

Your attitude of hostility being a problem of the last decade, in an area you work in, proves you don’t know the first thing about the area.

You being the sort of person that assumes other people must have had safe and loving homes and so just dont understand is a problem for a social worker.

You are the one that has no regard for your colleagues or the children they were trying to remove and making up reasons it’s wasn’t that bad. Those social workers were doing their jobs. Who said they were in the wrong? Your attitude is what I disagree with.

Your assumption that I am saying all social workers are bad because I disagree with you, personally, is quite frankly odd. So odd, in fact, it appears you don’t really have a point so trying to pretend I said something that I didn’t.

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo There is a massive shortage of social workers so please sign up to your local uni as you can obviously the job so well. Just 3 year degree- with placements obvs, where you will be expected to show some understanding of cultural diversity and deprivation. All much easier now as universities are businesses. I had to have 2 years relevant experience and be at least 23, and have a relevant undergraduate degree in social politics/sociology/law etc. But this was before social media really got going and every now every is a bloody expert.

Then just find a job who will sponsor you for your qualifying year and you can fix it all. Good luck!

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo
I am a bit confused- at no point did I say these children should not be removed for their well being- believe me, the threshold is now so high to get senior management/Court approval would Ihave usually been visiting every day with a case load of 40+ or driving to/from school.

Social workers all the UK are working to keep children safe day-to-day. On this occasion it errupted into some localised violence which was triggered with children coming into care. The family were upset (usual) but their extended network joined and then things got out of hand with unrelated people then joining in.

I have worked in front line children's services for nearly 20 years in Leeds. I love my job but it is all consuming. I work in West/Inner Leeds now but have worked in East leeds. Both patches have their own complexities. Yes I do have a clue what is going on. I know the areas. I work within statute and policy. I am sensitive to cultural differences yet at the heart of every thing I do is the interest of the child.

I have not said these children should not have been removed. However I am very angry at the misreporting and sensationalist reactions about what happened in Harehills in both the media and this thread (all misinformed).

I haven’t misunderstood. I just don’t agree with your view of it. And you were, in my opinion, not in the slightest bit bother about your (supposed) colleagues.
and your response is just justifying what you wrote and why SS mis things and make mistakes.

Services have been cut. But money in the last 20 years has been piled into the area to stop anti social behaviour. Even the fire services, B&Q were involved in organising community spaces to try and stop the amount of fires that were being set because ‘our kids are bored and we don’t have community centres’ was 10-15 years ago. And hostile have grown in the last 10 years? Setting fires isn’t hostile?

Placements for children are very difficult. I know this. A friend is a foster carer in Wakefield. it’s not logical that your colleagues just turned up to take the children because of racism. Yet you talk of hostilities have increased. Not the fact that the Social workers and Police probably had good reason to remove the children. And maybe that’s the problem.

You talk about the removal of children being the flash point. When it wasn’t.

You talk about how ‘respected community leaders’ had to de-escalate it. Yet you can’t see the connection. Communities of people who don’t want to abide by the laws and would only listen to someone from their own community. Thats the problem. Whether the community is white or not. British born or not. If entire communities feel they can do what they want, especially when it come to child neglect. There’s an issue. And your argument is ‘well done for being born somewhere safe’. Pretty strange for a social worker of 20 years to have not realised that assuming someone’s back ground, where and how they grew up isn’t a good idea.

Then let’s add that there’s still protests going on. Peaceful. But people wailing in the street they want their kids back because it’s upsetting for them. Community leaders giving their support to the family immediately and saying how upsetting it is for the parents. And straight away putting it down to racism.

How many abused and neglected children are there, where people around them didn’t know it was happening? yet the pillars of their community aren’t really interested in the children. They jumped straight to racism and straight to the parents feelings. If these community leaders care about their people, why aren’t they so concerned for the children and want them returned no matter what?

But the issue is people being hostile to those in the community?

you talked about it being sensationalist and hostilities growing in the last 10 years but seem to have forgotten past riots in the area and have no clue what’s it’s been like for 20 or so years at least.

It reads like SS in this area have no actual clue what’s going on and the causes of it.

@marshmallowmix Can you please quantify this? I have family in France, Spain Greece, Germany Turkey, and Bulgaria. My understanding is that most (probably not Bulgaria) have a far larger number of immigrants than we take in the UK. Turkey in particular have had a huge influence from Syria etc. Not sure how we are 'bending over backwards' compared to the the EU countries where the majority of migrants settle. Please provide figures.

Exactly

@OlgaBracley- of course it is not okay- however it was dealt without any casualties mainly because the people who live in the area worker with the police and authorities to de-escalate and stop things going further. I am sorry that live in an area in which social cohesion and unity does not exist. If there are no social leaders, maybe you could set this up? (Social leaders -very flexible term, it can also apply in less multicultural areas,- just someone trying to do good for the area. Like scout leader, help with the elderly action group, youth stuff- all happening here in another disadvantaged area of leeds).

That's ok then

Our problem is we have been far too tolerant for far too long …in fact we bend over backwards.

in other countries you follow their rules or you find out the hard way and they won’t soft touch like we do…

We have placated and prevaricated for far too long and now the future is scary…

Try this elsewhere and you’ll be tear gassed or rubber bullets bring in the water canons next time for these animals …