To think this is scandalous yet in plain sight because the patriarchy has no shame

Invisible work. 🙄

The only way you can really make your argument work is to suggest that a woman that chooses to work part-time (and i suspect has no real intention of ever working full-time again) is somehow being oppressed and is unappreciated.

To be honest, I'd love to opt out of full-time work and chill at home with the kids. Strangely, as a member of the evil patriarchy, that was never an option - nor was arranging to swap six months paternity leave for six months of my wife's maternity leave (despite my company paying 12 months at 90% and my wife's only paying statutory for the final six months!)

I'm fully aware of her lost earnings, but she seems more than happy with the current situation and appears to be manoeuvring for a 'career change' 😉.

But again, these are all hypotheticals vs the actual costs of raising our children. There's no way that the average family is spending £24k on their kids each year. That's £40k of earnings for a 40% taxpayer or £34k for a basic rate taxpayer.

That's an actual cost to your wife. Your wife's foregone wages and unpaid childcare is not "hypothetical". The fact that you didn't even consider it as part of your budget, is proving the point. The invisible work that women do only increases when they are single mothers.

Just to add to that, given how generous the UK benefits system is to part-time single parents, and that child maintenance doesn't impact benefits, is 15% of NET income really that bad?

I'm obviously talking about people that honestly declare their earnings, rather than people paying 50p a week.

Again. Those are hypothetical costs.

This tangent was started by somebody posting that the average cost per month of raising a child was £950-£1050 p/m. I immediately stated that the figure was high due to being skewed by childcare, etc.

There are loads of women on Mumsnet that openly state that they only do two days a week so as to maximise UC. There was a recent thread where somebody pointed out that there was no real point in working because a single parent on £35k had the same disposable income as somebody on £90k when all the benefits such as free childcare hours and child benefit were taken into account.

A single RP would qualify for all those benefits, which you're failing to take that into account with your 'gotcha' regarding my wife working part time.

Sweden, when we lived in the UK we were paying about £160 per week for our two days, unless they had any optional activity days that were sometimes a few pounds more.

where are you that childcare costs £89 pm? In the UK you add a zero to that. Also depending on where you live, a 9 year old walking home isn't going to be feasible (I do realise that is VERY situation dependent)

Sorry, I misread that quote and thought it said that a lot of contributors weren’t mentioning childcare costs.

Our son is 9, so he just walks home from school, he could do after school club if he needed it, this is at no additional cost. Our daughter is signed up for full time nursery, usually we just use it twice a week as we both work part time, full time childcare costs £89 per month.

Well there you go then. You've not accounting for all the income she forgoes. How disingenuous of you to neglect to account for her unpaid labour.

£225 per child x 2 plus any child related benefits. Surely the mother is also meant to pay her share

The NRP income was limited too as when they lived here he did half the school pick up drop offs and when they moved he had to alter hours to still do some pick up and drop off.

My wife only works two days a week and we don't have childcare costs for those days.

I appreciate that's different for most single parents and i agree that NRP should pay half of childcare costs (so long as the RP is actually working on those days and not just kicking back at home).

I teach teens. They actually do need tech. They will be at a massive disadvantage without access to the online study resources that exist and unless you are planning on having them isolated socially at the very least they need a brick phone. I am not at all one for caving to "but everyone has one" and mine don't care about cool brands or iphones but even a 2nd hand android is £1-200 plus a data plan each and a laptop for school (around £300-400 each). Mine absolutely understand that they can't have everything they ask for and my DS in particular is hugely frustrated that he cannot progress in his chosen sport because it is literally thousands that I don't have, but yes I do get into debt to give them what I can. Childhood is pretty short. Believe me when I say we are not jetting off on expensive holidays but with weeks and weeks of empty days to fill, with teens, its expensive unless you want to just let them veg in their rooms. If yours are younger you have no idea. Oh- plus food. Mine do nothing but eat now. My weekly shop used to be about £40. Now its £100, especially in holiday time. So yes, its pretty galling when my ex gets to ringfence 85% of his salary (which is slightly more than mine and he shares his household expenses with another working adult).

There's a lot there that you're not accounting for. How are you managing to have no childcare costs with 2 primary aged children?

Apart from the fact that the rp will have their income limited I agree with a lot of that. But this thread is about non and low payments of maintenance and a nrp parent paying maintenance and paying for 50% of other costs is not what is being discussed, so your point is irrelevant.

So at least 2 kids.. 225/month per child. Yea, doesn't touch the sides. He isn't anywhere near covering half their costs. Whilst it must be heartbreaking for your friend that his kids aren't choosing to spend their time with him, I'm sure the reasons for that are complex. Generally parents reap what they sow in the longer term. If your friend has put time and effort into his kids they will come around longer term and he'll see more of them as they get older. Teens don't tend to want to spend much time with their parents whether they live with them or not, but it doesn't absolve him of his financial responsibility to them.

The point being single adult household or 2 adults household you can only budget to the money you have.
If RP you have income, benefits and maintenance of.NRP
If NRP you have income minus Maintenance

You can't change those figures
In our case both RP and NRP needed a home big enough to house the number of children in the family
Both needed clothes, food, toys/gadgets
Both did day trips and holidays
Both paid for uniform and school activities

Both had 50/50 shared of school holidays
Both had share of term time till RP moved away then the term time was less but CM went up

The children cost more per year because their core costs at our home was no different to my child but on top their was CM and school activities which as a couple we opted out of for our child but as RP decided the children had to do the cost came to us

how about when they're teens and need tech,

* Nobody 'needs' tech. Not even for GCSE coursework. It's a nice to have and I'm sure we'll buy it, but it's very much optional.

want to not wear "embarrassing" clothes

* If you're foolish enough to allow yourself to be bullied by your kids into buying designer clothes, that's on you.

do hobbies that cost £££ in fees or kit or travel

* If we can afford it, we'll probably fund it, but again that's an optional extra and far from the norm. It certainly isn't a 'right'.

aren't amused by plodging in the park or woods.

*\ 🤷‍♀️

I'll spend £100 today taking mine to a theme park, with tickets and food.

* I presume you didn't get into debt doing that.

I think people are confusing the necessary/unavoidable costs of raising a child with the optional extras such as luxury holidays, school fees, ponies, etc.

You’d be running 2 households on that joint salary if you were a single parent. That’s the point that so many people are missing.

The estimate is based on 1 child, costs for a 2nd/3rd won't be as high, for many reasons. A quick Google of costs of raising a child will show you the various figures quoted. Bit of you're unwilling to suggest a figure you would consider reasonable, and a breakdown of it I'm going to go ahead and presume you don't actually have any idea how much raising a child as a single parent does cost and presume you have nothing worthwhile to add to a thread about maintenance costs!

@ThisOldThang how about when they're teens and need tech, want to not wear "embarrassing" clothes, do hobbies that cost £££ in fees or kit or travel, aren't amused by plodging in the park or woods. I'll spend £100 today taking mine to a theme park, with tickets and food. If you're really lucky maybe your kids will be into gardening or running or just hanging in the park but many aren't. It's not possible simply to say well we spend this so that is the cost.

The partner's income has nothing to do with his children.

I don't need to break it down because your per a child per a month figure based on number of our children would be higher than the take home figure a month.
So if that figure was accurate we would be in deficit every month or unable to provide for them

So what does it cost? With a breakdown if you don't mind?

Yes I know that it stil doesn't cost anywhere near that