To think this is scandalous yet in plain sight because the patriarchy has no shame

Do you know OP, I completely agree. I cannot understand why we don’t have a model like the USA where there are direct consequences of non payment. We talk about child poverty and how terrible it is that services have been cut to the bone but a new system which made men pay would have a massive impact on the financial wellbeing of women who are left shouldering all responsibility for a child. People talk about women trapping men with babies but it’s men who trap women in poverty when they decide that the consequences of their actions are not worth sticking around for.

Absolutely, I’ve said that here before, CMS should have teeth.

Massive sympathy OP. I think they need to rethink the whole child maintenance thing. Unless the child is adopted or taken into care an absent parent should always be liable for half the minimum reasonable cost of raising that child (more if their income level is higher).

There should be no more option for the absent parent to claim to be broke or to meet another partner and choose not to work. If they are genuinely unable to pay they should apply for a special government benefit to cover the cost with all the scrutiny that implies (partners income and savings taken into account).

If they refuse to pay then the government should pay on their behalf and collect the money as it would any other debt.

I can't understand how we accept this situation as a society. In a lot of cases taxpayers are stepping into pay basic living costs not for orphans or children whose parents are sick or disabled but children where one of their parents just can't be bothered.

@k1233 I agree with this.

My exh (of 13 years) artificially keeps his self-employed salary low and also because his latest live in girlfriend also has 3 children, he gets a reduction meaning he is expected to pay a whopping £53 a month for our 3 children.

When he pays…

I could tolerate this if he contributed in other ways but he doesn’t even see the kids. The system makes it too easy for men to avoid responsibility

@OceanStorm what are you on about??

@OceanStorm

bit tricky when they're 2,4,6

'Willy nilly' yeah that whole being together years, getting married, having a family....it's just so 'spur of the moment' 🙄🙄🙄

I agree with this but I think if the father can't/won't pay this then it should be paid by the government and the father owes the money as a debt, accruing interest, for however long it takes to repay it.

It will never happen because people will feel bad men at having to pay so much and find loads of reasons why it's the woman's fault and the man shouldn't have to pay that much.

So only rich people can have children? Wow. That’s some take 🙄

I have been in this situation the last two years OP and it’s an absolute disgrace. I feel like nobody listens when it’s highlighted. Just enraging. All my savings have gone on financing maternity leave and nursery fees. The system is a joke.
My only advice is to make sure you have a government childcare account to pay your fees as that will help a little. Take care and know you’re not alone.

Pmsl oh boy you HAVE to be on a mission to cause a bit of drama or you are just being twatty

either way - when my husband of 11 years left me it was a bit late to terminate my 8 and 6 year old and 4 month old 🙄

They are disgusting

We live in a male orientated society

Yes, my ex husband even thought it was a good idea to tell his daughter that he never wanted children. A daughter that is suffering from the effects of his behaviour to this day.

Stupid idea... we already have a problem with falling birth rates. What would that sum be? DD cost us around £50k in her first 7 years when factoring in childcare and a nominal £200 on 'expenses'.

What about accidental pregnancies?

OP, it's a crap system - the only way round it I could see though is more 50:50 custody arrangements where each parent is responsible for the childcare/other costs in their half and schools expenses are cut down the middle. The problem is that feckless parents will remain feckless parents and the children would suffer in that arrangement.

Unpopular opinion. If I want to buy a car, I have £15k in the bank before I buy a car. If I want a child, I'd have at least a calculated sum to get them to say 7 years old. This goes for both the man and woman. I personally think it's irresponsible any other way. I'd you don't do this, and something unforseen happens, your child suffers.

That's only if the mothers income is below a certain level set as a minimum standard of living income.

If it's at an acceptable level to live on they write and request money numerous times over a period. Then if the money isn't paid voluntarily they set up a debt (Betriebung) with the Canton ego chase the non paying adult.

If they ignore this the Betriebungsamt freeze his/her salary, at the source, give them a spending amount to cover their bills and a living allowance, and take the rest until the owed money is raised, then pass it over to the Socialamt who then transfer it to you. It can take over a year, and is a process that then needs to be repeated. It's better, but it's not perfect. I'm still owed over 100,000 Chf from my ex who refused to participate. If there is any official debt, that's prioritised it seems. In the end he fled the country to avoid dealing with it, and abandoned his child.

Also childcare payments out get taken into account for a tax deduction, but childcare payments into the (usually) mothers account get treated as an income, and taxed.

Funny that. My ex pays a fairly large amount out in child maintenance for our 3 children.
Still doesn't touch the sides of the things the kids actually need.

He does have the opinion I'm bleeding him dry. So dry in fact he lives between work and his parents, he can't actually afford the petrol to travel from work to mummys house on the £1400+ a week he gets to keep of his wages.

A bedsit flat is out of the question on his wages apparently..

He pays child support on the 5 days he works a week, but works 7. And turns up at my house to see the kids when he wants but there's no actual parenting and I can't remember the last time he actually took them to do something. It might have been McDonald's and the park in April. Since then he seems to have managed that he turns up after dinner, so he helps himself to leftovers.

He's got the "poor broke man" routine down to a T. His father feels so sorry for his poor bled dry son...
His son has such a tough time! Money out, out, out and all I do is spend you see. Always buying car seats, prams and clothes for the children. I even had new shoes a few months back, caused uproar I did.

Men do have the option to use contraception if they don't want children. I know everyone on her likes to make out they were using 10 different types of contraception and they still some how got pregnant but in the real world when people use it correctly it is very rare to get pregnant. If men were made to pay for children and take care of them to allow the mother to work then we wouldn't have so many men walking away when they get bored. They would think a little harder about having kids. I also think some women need to take more responsibility. How many times have we all ready oh I've known him a week and got pregnant

Much better.
Let HMRC pay the child support, including 50% of childcare costs, HMRC can then pursue the debtor with all the tools they have, fines, prison etc.

Well, even if that were true, I can think of a really easy and 100% affective way of preventing pregnancy.

In Switzerland the council decides how much the woman needs and pays her. The dad is then made to pay this to the council and they do go after them - the mum then doesn’t have to worry about the chasing the money.

Well don't just moan on MN, write to your MPs, start a campaign. This doesn't affect me but I will happily join any campaign and write to my MP about it because its so wrong. Also, public money is spent financially supporting women with children so children don't starve, meanwhile the fathers of these children are not forced to pay a penny, even if high earning. It's so, so wrong. Oh, and even if they do pay towards the support of their own child, that money isn't taken into account for benefits purposes because it is deemed so unreliable, and the state just shrugs its shoulders about it.

@XChrome financial abortions

I shouldn’t laugh but I wanted to.

Who don’t more people realise that too many men decide family life isn’t for them after the arrival of a planned child?

Parents should both pay for childcare, regardless of custody. It is the single biggest parenting expense. Primary parents working more also means fewer households needing benefits.

significant debates over childcare can be taken to mediation and then court the same as significant debates over school.

No contraception is 100% so condoms, pills, coil etc can all fail.
It takes 2 to tango so you can both live with the consequences including paying towards your child.
£360 in child maintenance would be amazing for me but it all depends on your income and expenses if that would be enough.