To think this is scandalous yet in plain sight because the patriarchy has no shame

Court is expensive? Bit like parenting then. If they can't be bothered, they stump up half the childcare bill, it's that simple.
If pre separation, dad was doing half the parenting, then I agree, it should be default, but realistically how often does that happen? Kids come before dads bank balance.

Reading this out of genuine interest and curiosity. I don't have children but two of my best friends are in completely different situations re CMS / maintenance payments even though their exes are very similar in terms of their jobs and what they earn (neither dad sees the kids very often). I don't understand how it all works? Are they meant to give a % of their wages? Or does it change depending on what the mum is earning? Or is it based on children's ages / how much time they spend with each parent?

Or maybe 50/50 should be standard system and if either parent doesn't want this then it goes to court to decide how to split the time and financial support is agreed at the same time.

It's not straightforward for the father to get 50/50 and expensive to go to court

No. Women get pregnant, men don't. You can argue that women should make better choices, but ultimately once a child is conceived the man's responsibilities are cemented. No ifs no buts.

'' How do you expect me to do 50%? I work.''

I actually heard this.
His wife was working full time doing all the drop offs and collections and covering for sickness. He obviously had not noticed this during their time together.

Yes ! agree with this as well.

In theory, this is true. In practice, from what I've observed, many men on 50:50 parachute in various female relatives to do the childcare and labour for them or move in a new woman to do it, so in essence they carry on largely unhindered by parenting.

15% - lol. I am a single mum and spend 100% of my income putting a roof over my kids' heads, food on the table, driving them around and paying for all their school trips etc. Why is this somehow all my responsibility to shoulder, but their father is only expected to pay 15% of his income towards them? (Luckily my ex isn't a tight arse and actually does pay his fair share).

They all no this, so there's really no justification in moaning or blaming women. Wrap it up or keep it to yourself if you don't want babies.

Does the same apply to women?

I thought there were two parents and they negotiate custody? In decent divorces they kind of do.

Women aren't solely in charge of whethet they get 50/50 custody.

@dogmandu and sometimes the most intelligent thing to do is call a deadbeat a deadbeat and a condescending arse a condescending arse.

I've been banging this drum too, since it happened to me 21 years ago. Married with a toddler and a new born baby when ex-H decided it was all a bit too much like hard work and buggered off with someone else.

Wouldn't disclose his income at mediation, so had to go to court for the divorce. Then wouldn't adjust his contributions in line with inflation, then made out he was suffering financially and reduced his payments. Eventually took him to the CMS and discovered he'd been massively underpaying as his salary had gone up so much!!!!!! He protested vociferously and endlessly and got his new wife to write me some long letter about how mean I was taking money away from their new family. I honestly thought I might orbit the moon with rage.

Anyhow, it is scandalous and I wish there were some way of making these wankers pay their fair share and parent their fair share too. I'm also really sorry to hear that little has changed in the last two decades.

Indeed.
Most men want children. It adds to their status and if you want to believe the armchair 'manzone' philosophy, it demonstrates their fertility.

However now most men also want a wife that goes out and pulls her weight financially - the issue comes is that a great many are not as willing to step up and take over half the 'traditional' jobs that women did - like housework and childcare. So when they split, they are reluctant to do 'more work' with the kids, and are also acutely aware of how childcare could impact their career, so choose to prioritise that, not really caring that obviously the same applies to their wife, left to juggle all childcare alongside a job. This leaves women quite often compromised and in need of more financial support than if they had been willing to take on their share of raising the children that they created together.

In addition women and society is far more aware and focussed on what raises happy healthy children, and a number of men dont engage with that as a mutual endeavour - a behaviour which brings families closer together - they resent the lack of attention being solely on them, and are jealous of their own kids.

Always support the children. The man's choice in that ends at conception. It is that simple. They all no this, so there's really no justification in moaning or blaming women. Wrap it up or keep it to yourself if you don't want babies.

I completely agree with you.
I also should have written that in many cases after years together men do walk away and leave it to women, but that is on our government that allow men to do this.

However, women need to be ruthless too and protect themselves and put themselves 100% first, particularly in relationships of a short duration.
Because sadly many, many men, particularly those unmarried, but certainly not restricted to them, walk away from women and young children VERY easily.

Of course it is wrong and disgusting behaviour. I don't blame women for one bit of this.

What I am saying is, in as much as is possible they need to ruthlessly protect themselves because men certainly won't.

CMS is absolutely useless. It's not fit for purpose.
Men who don't pay should be heavily penalised, passports taken , driving licenses, jail.
It's a disgrace.

Not this AGAIN!

Why do you keep starting the same thread???

But should they pay the whole cost of them ? Two different things.
Also it's almost always the woman who is left holding the kids.

there are no simple answers without taking everything into consideration are there, and certainly not I always support the woman, or I always support the man!

If he genuinely has the kids half the working week, and half the nights, half the meal times etc there would be no maintenance due. However all too often the man's "half" just happens to fall over the weekend, getting him out of the nursery bill and landing granny with babysitting duties.
If he wants 50/50 and doesn't have it, he can go through the courts.

Yes I banged that drum for 20 years - very disappointing to hear that it’s no better in 2024.

So you want all women to be psychic now?

Men are equally morally ethically responsible for half of the costs of their children. The fact society doesn't prioritise this is disgusting.

I'm interested in what people say about the system in the US being much better. I assume it has changed since my friend was trying to get child support from her ex husband there (over 20 years ago).

When they split up he refused to pay child support. She took him to court and got a ruling that he should pay whatever it was, but it wasn't enforceable because he moved to a different state. She had to start the process all over again in the new state. I think she gave up after he had moved about 6 times.

"There are women complicit in this too"

Yes there absolutely are, in all kinds of ways.

The biggest losers are the poor children, who have a stressy and unpleasant life due to their single mothers being forced to struggle and their fathers behaving like irresponsible oversexed teenagers.

XH spent court-ordered money that should have funded dd's further education, on flying to an exotic location and marrying a woman exactly half his age. I will never see that money, all I will see are red letters from HMRC because I now can't pay my taxes.

I was going to have a nice quiet non-confrontational browse of lighthearted aibu threads but now I'm angry.

Do any posters know of any activitist or pressure groups.

Pregnancy is a risk of having sex. Always.

Men can use a condom. Some pregnancies result from contraceptive failure so "she told me she was on the pill" is a nonsense excuse. She might have been. At least if you used a condom you took some responsibility and you can know she didn't entrap you deliberately.

Also it hardly covers men who abandon their wives and kids and don't pay up.