To think this is scandalous yet in plain sight because the patriarchy has no shame

Also the patriarchy: “Oh noes! Our capitalist ponzi scheme is failing because our population growth is falling. How can we force encourage women to punt out more future workers?”

"One whole day as in - get up at 6am, feed and dress them, do all meals, all naps, all the housework, bath times and get them to sleep?"

This.

You said you didn't know a man that could do it for a day. Now you've moved the goalposts to a year.

My sons Dad managed it ok

One whole day as in - get up at 6am, feed and dress them, do all meals, all naps, all the housework, bath times and get them to sleep?

Or one day between 9-5?

Honestly my ex used to tell people we 'shared parenting' but in reality he had from 6pm Friday until 10am Sunday - I did EVERYTHING else - doctors apt, A+E visits, dentist, school runs, parents evenings, school performances, sorting out outfits for WBD, odd sock day, fucking whatever day, organised and paid for ALL after school care, nursery and holiday cover, school applications, settling in sessions, shopped, cooked, bathed, dressed them, did the laundry and worked

I mean 'one day' of playing Lego, going to the park and watching a bit of CBBC isn't really 'parenting' so I bet it's fun!

Oooh one whole day. Wow.
Proving my point rather if you still don't get it.

But you’re missing the point - you and your wife SHARE the burden so you’re not living that life. Do it on your own for twelve months and see if you’d find it as easy if hadn’t had a day off in a year.

"I honestly don’t know a man who could do it for a day."

I'm doing it again on Thursday (boys aged 5 and 2) and I'm really not anticipating any problems because it really isn't very difficult. I'm certainly glad that my wife and I normally share the burden, but come on!

"Capable of" absolutely, but actually doing half of everything? Nah. That's a rarity. And not just 2+ thanks, you can't wait until it gets easier to step up.
Like I said, men on here are always the exception for some reason.
Like I said as well, no need to take it personally if it really doesn't apply to you mate.

Under 2s is the easiest time! It might not be hard if you’ve got pots of money to throw around but it’s fucking hard if you don’t, and have no support network, or if you’ve got SEN kids or a teen with an ED. Hell, just the physical running round to get to and from work/school/clubs etc is hard! Doing it 24/7 with no respite, zero social life and no spare cash is exhausting and depressing. I honestly don’t know a man who could do it for a day.

You must know some shit dads.

In my friendship group I think all the dads are easily capable of sole parenting. Once they're 2+ years old it really isn't that hard, is it?

(I will happily accept that we do earn substantially above the UK average and wouldn't have any trouble paying for wraparound care, weekly cleaners, etc.)

I never called separated women bitches collectively. I said women who use their children to blackmail fathers and prevent/limit those children time with their dads to be nasty are bitches.
There are women who do this and they caused unnecessary stress not only to the children father, the wider family and the children themselves who are often dragged into the drama they create totally unnecessary as the fathers are financial and in person supporting the children

The men on these threads are always the exception. Quite remarkable really.

In reality though, not only are they oblivious to the efforts of the primary parent, they often seem to need her to facilitate their attempt at trying/pretending to doing half.

Any dad who takes this personally, it's because deep down you know it's true.

That's just nonsense logic.

Just because one parent can manage without the other, it doesn't mean the other parent did nothing. I could manage without my wife, but I recognise that she does contribute to raising our kids.

Thanks, yes I understand. But couldn't even unmarried fathers go to court to have access (if they are on the birth certificate)?

I don't think that's true at all. It's funny how some men seem to think they are oh so hands on, but he moves out and the ex and kids manage just fine without him. It's obvious that lots of men, separated or otherwise, have little understanding of what it means to be the primary parent.

I hear you, but over half of children are now born into unmarried households, so there wouldn't be any divorce or court involvement.

1. They are never made to pay "every penny they earn".

2. Nobody has called separated men bastards, although someone has called separated mothers bitches.

3. If they have no intention of abandoning their families and are so dedicated, they will pay the financial support and won't complain about it or imagine it to be "every penny they earn" when it quite patently isn't.

What I'm seeing here is the ongoing trend here for men to complain about supporting their own kids, with an attempt to veil it in a fig leaf of pretending that it's the separation that's wounding them emotionally and they're such dedicated dads. Nobody is fooled.

I'm not sure that is necessarily the case anymore. My divorce was 5 years ago and I was told that the default assumption in the courts is 50/50 now, unless of course the parents come to a different arrangement. I'm sure that courts look at the children's needs etc, so may not go for 50/50 if this is deemed not to meet the children's needs.

He was very much a hands on dad. The money he paid her allowed her to continue doing the minimum amount of hours although the children were teenagers.

Often they don't get a choice in any of the decisions; it's just assumed that women will be the resident parent / primary carer / whatever the term is these days, and no matter what men want they don't get a say.

I think that doing 50% of the care is not necessarily cheaper than being a NRP and 'paying up', as this involves either paying 50% of the incredibly expensive childcare to be able to work full-time or making career sacrifices that influence earning power now and in the future. It's a reality that many single working parents have to make while their NR ex partner gets away with paying a fraction of the actual cost of bringing up the child while enjoying the opportunity to work as much as they like. A big factor in this are the childcare costs that are horrendously expensive in this country. I do think the government have a responsibility to do something about this. Sorry if this is repeating previous messages that I didn't read, but a point worth repeating anyway.

That does happen. It has happened to my current (male) partner. But it is rare. And, the reason could be because the ex has a very low paid job and needs all the child support that she can get. But, why does she have a low paid job? Because society allows women to be paid so poorly. Although, she does seem very odd tbh! But, once the children turn 18, my partner won't have to pay anything to her. Most of us are still supporting children past 18.

Agree @Notaflippinclue How to spot red flags, how to behave as a person of value (regardless of where you come from or what your job is), how not to be love-bombed, how to let someone show you their values. I could have done with lessons in all of those things.

That combined with household finances or home economics as it was back in the dark ages, basic meal prep, home DIY and maintenance and first aid. All of those things would be infinitely more useful than the history of the Tudors, quadratic equations, the urban development of Lagos and so on. I'm not saying don't include all the academic subjects but what the fuck is the point of an education if you can't deal with the basic business of living every day life!

I would also advocate a massive improvement in value and recognition given to parents. If parents were valued and considered to be doing an important job - men would be all over it!

Of course they still have to pay. Or do half of everything. Why on earth wouldn't they?