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To desperately seek training advice from lawyers?

35 replies

Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 14:37

Apologies in advance for being cagey with some details but I’m struggling to navigate forward with a DC with lots of historical issues and am having to be careful of boundaries but am getting to the stage where I’m so confused about options that I really need help before another difficult conversation.

They have a law degree and for various logistical and financial family reasons, rather than have the year out they wanted, have nearly finished an MA and SQE online. Had a very close fail with first SQE exam and has resat awaiting results. Assignments/portfolios all passed so far.

Again, for practical, financial reasons I need them to move forwards regardless of outcome of exams but am unsure of how they can do that.

Is a paralegal role reasonable? Or a training contract to repeat SQE in it’s entirety? Or a completely different route? ( These are all things they’ve talked about but not actioned)

Would you recommend emailing every solicitor locally to see if there are any opportunities?

Please be gentle. I’m totally unfamiliar with this area and dealing with a very headstrong DC who is a hard worker but very much a last minute action taker!

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Aysegull · 06/10/2024 00:29

CraftyPlumViewer · 05/10/2024 22:12

Mine was about 15 years ago but we were allowed to take our course books and notes in (luckily for me, as I struggled to study - then undiagnosed ADHD - so learned quite a few things for the first time during the exams themselves 😅)

(I was College of Law, as it then was).

Edited

Ah actually that rings a bell re CoL. I vaguely remember hearing CoL was full open book whilst I was at BPP.

Champere · 05/10/2024 22:46

I qualified via the SQE route. It is brutal and requires huge mental resilience.

SQE1 is 2 exams on black letter law, over four sessions divided over two days. 90 questions per session so 360 in total.

You have to pass both parts to pass. You cannot resit a failed ‘module’.

SQE2 is 16 assessments. 4 oral exams with either 10 minute or 45 minute prep time. Orals are at central locations in London, Manchester etc

The 12 written assessments are over 3 days.

All exams are closed book and there are no past papers to look at. You revise everything and have no idea which parts may be examined.

Most firms now offer only the SQE route as the LPC is being phased out. Our firm offer a training contract after proving yourself as a paralegal. You then have one year to pass the SQE1, working 4 days with 1 day off to study.

If SQE1 is passed you move on to SQE2, with the aim being that you have enough qualifying work experience by the end of exams to meet the 2 year requirement.

Also be aware that if you fail either SQE1 or SQE2 three times then you have to wait six years before trying again.

Most top level firms will cancel training contracts for those that don’t pass first time. It’s awful but it’s true.

I would persuade anyone who can take the LPC route whilst they still can to do it.

Goxhound · 05/10/2024 22:12

Options for Moving Forward
Paralegal Roles
A paralegal position is a well-established route for law graduates who are either awaiting qualification or seeking to gain more hands-on legal experience. This role allows the individual to work in legal settings, build a professional network, and potentially prepare for a successful SQE resit. While paralegals are not fully qualified solicitors, many law firms use these positions to groom future trainees or newly qualified solicitors.
Pros:

  • Immediate entry into the legal field
  • Hands-on experience that complements SQE preparation
  • Potential to convert the role into a training contract or solicitor position upon qualification
Cons:
  • Lower salary expectations than a qualified solicitor role
  • May not directly lead to qualification without further action
Training Contract with SQE Repetition Though traditional training contracts were more aligned with the LPC route, they are still relevant under the new SQE framework. Some firms may offer training contracts that require re-sitting SQE exams, often in exchange for sponsoring the costs of the qualification. Securing a training contract would put the individual on a structured path towards becoming a solicitor, with built-in support for completing any necessary SQE elements. Pros:
  • Structured pathway to qualification as a solicitor
  • Potential financial and professional support from the firm
  • Practical training under supervision
Cons:
  • Highly competitive, especially for someone who has not yet passed SQE1
  • Limited availability depending on the firm and location
Alternative Routes Other avenues include exploring legal consultancy, in-house legal roles, or further academic legal qualifications such as a PhD. These can offer more flexibility or specialisation but may delay or deviate from the conventional solicitor route. Pros:
  • Flexibility and specialisation
  • Less reliance on immediate exam results
Cons:
  • Less direct path to solicitor qualification
  • May require additional academic or professional investment
  1. Networking and Outreach
Given the competitive nature of legal professions, a proactive approach is vital. Emailing solicitors and law firms within the local area to inquire about potential openings (paralegal roles, internships, or even opportunities to resit the SQE while gaining experience) could open doors. Local firms may have more flexible entry points for trainees, particularly if they are smaller or less rigid in recruitment processes. When reaching out, it’s crucial to highlight the hard-working nature of the individual and their commitment to passing the SQE. Key Strategies for Outreach:
  • Tailored Applications: Ensure that each email or inquiry is personalised for the firm, highlighting any specific area of interest, such as family law, criminal law, or commercial law.
  • Professional Networks: Use platforms like LinkedIn to connect with legal professionals, alumni networks, or law society contacts who may offer insight or openings.
  • Legal Recruitment Agencies: These agencies can sometimes assist in placing graduates in roles that suit their current qualifications, with a view towards progression.
CraftyPlumViewer · 05/10/2024 22:12

Aysegull · 05/10/2024 19:31

Depends what the book is surely. I did the LPC 10 years ago and everyone kept saying it’s open book. The only book we were allowed was the statute book, which is not really ridiculous to have.

Mine was about 15 years ago but we were allowed to take our course books and notes in (luckily for me, as I struggled to study - then undiagnosed ADHD - so learned quite a few things for the first time during the exams themselves 😅)

(I was College of Law, as it then was).

XelaM · 05/10/2024 22:05

Aysegull · 05/10/2024 21:58

I did it at BPP 10 years ago and the only book we were allowed in the open book exams were the statute books. And they were checked in each exam to make sure there was nothing else in there.

That's all changed since Covid. All notes and materials are allowed.

Aysegull · 05/10/2024 21:58

XelaM · 05/10/2024 20:20

I did my LPC at BPP around 20 years ago and I thought it was quite tough and it was all closed book. Nowadays, they do open book exams where they basically allow you to have all the answers in front of you. It's pretty difficult to fail (although some still manage 🥶).

I did it at BPP 10 years ago and the only book we were allowed in the open book exams were the statute books. And they were checked in each exam to make sure there was nothing else in there.

XelaM · 05/10/2024 20:20

Odin2018 · 05/10/2024 19:54

Was this going back 30 years? Also as I said previously it all depends on the actual institutions that providing the LPC in years gone by. I can't speak on today's examination which may have been dumbed down since the beginning. I have also had experience of family sitting the SQE and it is not harder than the LPC that I took way back in my day from a reputable institution.

I did my LPC at BPP around 20 years ago and I thought it was quite tough and it was all closed book. Nowadays, they do open book exams where they basically allow you to have all the answers in front of you. It's pretty difficult to fail (although some still manage 🥶).

Odin2018 · 05/10/2024 20:03

Aysegull · 05/10/2024 19:31

Depends what the book is surely. I did the LPC 10 years ago and everyone kept saying it’s open book. The only book we were allowed was the statute book, which is not really ridiculous to have.

Similar.
I took it 20+ years ago without the statute book.

I also have knowledge of the SQE. It might be that in some institutions the LPC has been dumbed down since then when they allowed it to be taught it many more institutions, but not back in the day when only a few institutions taught it.

Odin2018 · 05/10/2024 19:54

XelaM · 05/10/2024 19:24

As someone who has taught both, I can tell you the SQE is harder and most universities now do open book exams for the LPC, which are ridiculous.

Was this going back 30 years? Also as I said previously it all depends on the actual institutions that providing the LPC in years gone by. I can't speak on today's examination which may have been dumbed down since the beginning. I have also had experience of family sitting the SQE and it is not harder than the LPC that I took way back in my day from a reputable institution.

Aysegull · 05/10/2024 19:31

XelaM · 05/10/2024 19:24

As someone who has taught both, I can tell you the SQE is harder and most universities now do open book exams for the LPC, which are ridiculous.

Depends what the book is surely. I did the LPC 10 years ago and everyone kept saying it’s open book. The only book we were allowed was the statute book, which is not really ridiculous to have.

XelaM · 05/10/2024 19:24

Odin2018 · 05/10/2024 14:16

When was it decided that the SQE standard was a lot higher than the LPC? Could it be the university where the LPC was taken (just as degrees at some universities are regarded as tougher to get than at other universities?). I took the LPC at a well regarded institution and the standard of work and exams was extremely high.

As someone who has taught both, I can tell you the SQE is harder and most universities now do open book exams for the LPC, which are ridiculous.

Foxhasbigsocks · 05/10/2024 15:13

@Odin2018 it’s pretty well accepted SQE is much harder. The failure rate in SQE is very high for one thing - only 44% pass rate for the last SQE 1 exam. It is a much tricker assessment, not least because the exam papers are not shared with or set by the teaching institutions, so they can’t teach to the test. All they have is a very broad syllabus.

Odin2018 · 05/10/2024 14:16

Emilyjayne9421 · 15/07/2024 21:04

Hi, I’m a trainee solicitor and currently studying for SQE 2 after passing SQE 1 earlier this year. I got my role with very little previous experience and I admit I’m very lucky in this respect, but what I did to before was volunteering for CAB, and I volunteered with a pro bono criminal appeals clinic online. I got my role in a small high street firm, so I’d suggest volunteering in the places I said, then applying to small firms once they have passed SQE 1. I hope this helps. Reach out if I can help more. The SQE process is extremely difficult and the standard is a lot higher than the LPC.

When was it decided that the SQE standard was a lot higher than the LPC? Could it be the university where the LPC was taken (just as degrees at some universities are regarded as tougher to get than at other universities?). I took the LPC at a well regarded institution and the standard of work and exams was extremely high.

Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 21:47

Emilyjayne9421 · 15/07/2024 21:04

Hi, I’m a trainee solicitor and currently studying for SQE 2 after passing SQE 1 earlier this year. I got my role with very little previous experience and I admit I’m very lucky in this respect, but what I did to before was volunteering for CAB, and I volunteered with a pro bono criminal appeals clinic online. I got my role in a small high street firm, so I’d suggest volunteering in the places I said, then applying to small firms once they have passed SQE 1. I hope this helps. Reach out if I can help more. The SQE process is extremely difficult and the standard is a lot higher than the LPC.

Thank you so much-they’re doing some volunteering with a local advocacy charity and I’ll pass on the info about the appeals. It’s great to read about your experiences-it makes it seem
much less daunting.

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Emilyjayne9421 · 15/07/2024 21:04

Hi, I’m a trainee solicitor and currently studying for SQE 2 after passing SQE 1 earlier this year. I got my role with very little previous experience and I admit I’m very lucky in this respect, but what I did to before was volunteering for CAB, and I volunteered with a pro bono criminal appeals clinic online. I got my role in a small high street firm, so I’d suggest volunteering in the places I said, then applying to small firms once they have passed SQE 1. I hope this helps. Reach out if I can help more. The SQE process is extremely difficult and the standard is a lot higher than the LPC.

Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 21:00

Foxhasbigsocks · 15/07/2024 20:35

Hi op, I am in a related education field. The way that lawyers are trained has changed recently.

All that is needed to qualify as a solicitor is 2 years qualifying work experience (QWE) which they can get before, during or after doing SQE 1 and 2. Often people get QWE by working as a paralegal.

Once a candidate has two years QWE and has passed both SQE 1 and 2 they let the regulatory body (the SRA) know and they qualify. That of course doesn’t guarantee a job employed as a solicitor.

The prestigious bigger firms are hard to get into and good academics are needed and usually they recruit 1-2 years before SQE for what is often still called a ‘training contract’, which takes two years. The trainees do the SQE 1 and 2 first, then the two years work at the firm. If there is a newly qualified job available at the end of the two years they are taken on as a solicitor. In these firms their paralegals may not often get a route to a newly qualified job.

In other firms working as a paralegal is a route to a training contract/qualified job.

Than you so much-this provides so much clarity for me. Much appreciated 😊

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Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 20:59

XelaM · 15/07/2024 20:33

Nooooo advise them against criminal law unless it's white collar. There is no money in crime (with few niche exceptions).

We’ve already had that conversation multiple times 🙄

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Foxhasbigsocks · 15/07/2024 20:35

Hi op, I am in a related education field. The way that lawyers are trained has changed recently.

All that is needed to qualify as a solicitor is 2 years qualifying work experience (QWE) which they can get before, during or after doing SQE 1 and 2. Often people get QWE by working as a paralegal.

Once a candidate has two years QWE and has passed both SQE 1 and 2 they let the regulatory body (the SRA) know and they qualify. That of course doesn’t guarantee a job employed as a solicitor.

The prestigious bigger firms are hard to get into and good academics are needed and usually they recruit 1-2 years before SQE for what is often still called a ‘training contract’, which takes two years. The trainees do the SQE 1 and 2 first, then the two years work at the firm. If there is a newly qualified job available at the end of the two years they are taken on as a solicitor. In these firms their paralegals may not often get a route to a newly qualified job.

In other firms working as a paralegal is a route to a training contract/qualified job.

XelaM · 15/07/2024 20:33

Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 19:40

Thanks Wiggypig- great advice. They had a great work placement experience with a criminal law solicitor so have always wanted to pursue criminal law but have also developed a real interest in human rights law.

Nooooo advise them against criminal law unless it's white collar. There is no money in crime (with few niche exceptions).

NeverHadHaveHas · 15/07/2024 20:24

Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 19:40

Thanks Wiggypig- great advice. They had a great work placement experience with a criminal law solicitor so have always wanted to pursue criminal law but have also developed a real interest in human rights law.

Are you close to London, because firms offering trainees human rights experience are very few and far between and mostly in London.

Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 19:40

Thanks Wiggypig- great advice. They had a great work placement experience with a criminal law solicitor so have always wanted to pursue criminal law but have also developed a real interest in human rights law.

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Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 17:08

Thanks Wiggypig- great advice. They had a great work placement experience with a criminal law solicitor so have always wanted to pursue criminal law but have also developed a real interest in human rights law.

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WiggyPig · 15/07/2024 16:32

You might get some answers here https://www.sra.org.uk/become-solicitor/sqe/

The SQE didn't exist in my prehistoric day but from looking at how it now works I think applicants need to concentrate on getting both the SQE 1 and 2, because without it they won't be able to qualify at all. Then they need to look for suitable "qualifying work" which could include working as a paralegal. However I'd be cautious about unscrupulous firms recruiting people on the promise of offering qualifying work which ultimately doesn't count - does your DC know what area of law is of interest yet?

Solicitors Qualifying Examination (SQE) route

Find out how to qualify through the SQE route

https://www.sra.org.uk/become-solicitor/sqe

Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 16:14

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 15/07/2024 14:54

Most training contracts (as far as I'm aware) recruit 1-2 years in advance so I'm not sure how feasible that plan would be. They're also like hen's teeth.

Thanks. If that was considered to be the best option then that’s what I would encourage. Most of DCs law graduate friends are on gap years or working as paralegals with a couple working in administrator roles. All still want to be solicitors-I’m still really confused as to the best support to give but it seems that focusing on the SQE is actually still the best option at the minute.

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Starlingexpress · 15/07/2024 15:32

I just want to clarify, I’m not doing any legwork, or emailing anybody. I’m asking for information about the process so that I can understand it better and support DC better. I’m not interested in comments on DCs character, history , or motivations and have deliberately kept details vague. I am grateful for the up to date information about the practical aspects of training and have found that information useful.

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