Private school fees - act now for SEND!

Sorry I disagree. Most won’t be moving their children, of the few that will many won’t have children with severe SEN( apparantly they’ll all be stealing grammar places) EHCPs are protected as
are those in special schools. Also children move and change schools all the time. They don’t melt.

Private schools near me have an unofficial policy of not admitting children with EHCPs or SEND unless it’s a very limited/easy to manage situation. Therefore I am not able to take up private education even if I could afford it. I would rather we sorted out SEND in the state sector.

Realistically, there has to be an adjustment period for children with SEN at private schools.

What most people on here are proposing is that parents of children with SEN at private schools remove their children (because they can't afford the fees), lobby the government and expect big, positive changes for children with needs.

In reality, this will take years. And in the meantime, those children will have to move schools. A massive upheaval for children who are already struggling.

For those not in private schools, Labour has already outlined how they will reform education, which will take a lot more money than what they will raise through VAT on private schools. They've committed to it, and it will happen, so I'm not sure why a minority of parents of children with SEN sending letters to their MP is causing such an uproar.

It absolutely isn’t cost effective,quite the reverse.Stopping this and ensuring provision happens in state schools only when special schools aren’t needed would save a fortune.

Most EHCPs don’t request a 121 and a full time TA on minimum wage would only be paid £12k as opposed to £18k for private school fees. Said TA would be doing other work too in a state school.

This really needs to be looked at, it’s ludicrous and a massive waste of money.,

NAH… I think we need better State SEND provision

The non special school private school fees can be a cost effective way of meeting a child's needs for an LA.

Particularly for a child who is academic, so most special state schools don't work as they dont offer the curriculumn, but they have still have high sensory and communication issues so most maintained states don't work as they are too busy.

For instance a child in a mainstream state with 1 to 1 can cost the same or less than a child in a private school, who now doesn't need 1 to 1 as the class size is smaller and the day includes more sports or arts so they are calmer.

Basically proper SEN support costs a lot wherever you deliver it.

Yes I was wondering do people expect school fee invoice to be a different amount for ECHP students when this is in place?

@DarkM3l0n that's not what this thread is about?

Incidentally though, my LA "exports" about 20% of children with EHCP to schools outside of borough (independent, state, boarding) because they haven't built enough capacity.

I bet they're not the only ones.

Labour have not said they will exempt pupils with an EHCP from VAT on school fees - only pupils where the local authority is paying the fees (likely to be at special schools not mainstream private). VAT is on the goods or service not the customers - unless a school was providing a materially different service to a child with SEND it would be discriminatory to exempt them from VAT when classmates have to pay. They have been quiet on school fees so far - I except a 'consultation' then surprise finding of it being too legally complex and fiscally pointless to do.

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond. I am really grateful.

Yes I have viewed More House. On paper it looks like it would work but he is really very bright and I dont think the style of teaching is quite right. Eg they explained how they taught telling the time in chunks over and over again for dyslexic students but he understood time instantly years before it was taught in his mainstream primary maths curriculum and he used to invent time systems in other number bases just for fun.

Absolutely

I'm confused. Why would private education for Sen pupils be zero vat rated? I'm not really seeing the logical argument for this?

I’m staggered that people think local authorities spending vast amounts of money on non special school private fees for a few children is ok. It needs to be stopped. That money will impact the SEN budget for everybody else and with an EHCP if a special school isn’t needed state education if good enough.

Also if you have a child at prep school with EHCP looking to make the move to senior be aware the process is complicated by the fact that the LA have to approve the move. They take into account parental choice but the new school has to be named in the EHCP and it has to go to their panel to decide which school to name - the one proposed by the parents or a different school nominated by the LA, based on things like cost and ability to meet needs. This is even if you aren’t asking them to meet the fees. So an EHCP is not to be applied for lightly if you are in the private system.

We were awarded our EHCP years ago (aged 4) because he could not talk due to his dyspraxia - took till 7 for him to learn to talk with a lot of speech therapy from his wonderful then school. So it was v much needed at the time and his needs although much lesser are still sufficient to maintain it but private schools aren’t willing to consider meeting those needs.

@JumpingJill slight derail here but presumably you’ve considered More House? It’s a pretty special place. Specialist provision but very aspirational and for bright boys who struggle in mainstream. About half have ECHPs I believe.

I find all these posts about children with SEN but without EHCPs being supported in private schools highly ironic because I have a child currently in state school (with an EHCP) whom I would love to send to a private school (with us fully paying the fees - not asking LA to pay) but I cannot find ANY private school in Surrey that does not already market itself as a specialist SEN school that is willing to look at a child with an EHCP.

I therefore find it hard to believe there are 100s of children at mainstream (not specialist) private schools who would qualify for EHCPs and their school willingly have them attend.

FWIW my DC is incredibly bright, very well behaved, but has dyspraxia and some social issues. This manifests in terrible handwriting and he is no good at sports and has no friends (but is completely happy in his own company). I thought a private school with smaller class sizes and more stretching curriculums would be a perfect fit but no, always excuses as to why they can’t meet his needs so maybe I should look elsewhere. I am sure there are many kids like him without EHCPs already at these schools (several of my other child’s friends have ASD or ADHD) but the minute you mention an EHCP the excuses start. So will probably be forced to stay with state despite other child going private.

Of course they can’t and won’t do that. The bar for “SEN” is a lot lower in private schools( special adjustments for exams are higher), there is no standardisation as regards rating SEN and nearly all parents will say (with school encouragement) that their child has SEN.

I have spent a lot of time campaigning to improve SEND for all. I have written to my MP, I have met with my MP. I have attended marches. I have given evidence to the Education Select Committee on exclusions and SEND. I've filled out consultations, I've joined lobby groups.

But I dont mind if parents, who have managed to buy SEND support, write to their MP to explain the impact of a change in VAT rules on their child.

It's not an either / or situation in my mind.

I'm generally pro anything that gets MPs thinking about SEND.

If this makes an MP think 'why couldn't this child be supported by the state sector? What's gone wrong?' That's a good thing.

Sorry but this a joke, surely?

No the absolute scum are the millionnaires who could afford private but instead choose to buy into million pound state catchments totally free. Then the money they would have paid for private gets invested in each child’s name. IMO if you earn above £100k you SHOULD pay for state education for all your children.

Lots of bitterness on this thread
The OP was right to post this. Easy for everyone to jump on, but the EHCP process is dire & not speedy at the best of times. Likely by the time there's any major change there, their children will be through the school system. Yes, they're lucky to be able to circumvent the lengthy EHCP process, but the people paying EXTRA for private education are already contributing to your kids state education. Should they receive some kind of rebate on that? Everyone needs to grow up, you know you'd all be paying for better education if you could afford it, who wouldn't if money wasn't a problem?

But the issue there is that the only schools available are private ones which cost local authorities an arm and a leg rather than their being properly funded specialist schools for all.

The only specialist school in a 40 miles radius of me who offer a full range of GCSEs is an independent one and the fees are extortionate. There is no properly funded state option - not because of lack of need there is plenty of need. On top of the cost of the school itself parents and local authorities generally spend a fortune going through courts to argue for the place.

the whole system is broken sadly. There is undoubtedly a place for some specialist independent schools but that is still an area full of issues and it shouldn’t be used to replace state provisions

In an ideal world every child would have access to all the support they need. I hate this argument of ‘I can’t have it so you shouldn’t either’. Anyone who thinks VAT on school fees is going to somehow magically transform the financial position of state schools is very misinformed. Even if hardly any kids leave private schools, the amount generated will not do enough. I can’t afford private school but I don’t see why those parents who do pay it should be expected to fund even further a system they already help massively by not using it. Absolutely I support taxing higher earners and big business but this tax is based purely on a hatred for the concept of private education. Where do we go next? Parents who pay for private tutors so they pass the eleven plus? Parents who buy a house with a massive mortgage they can hardly afford to get in a decent catchment are? Of course not.

Ironically, for all those complaining about funding children with SEND in private schools via EHCP taking money from other children, it is cheaper for the LA to pay my son’s school fees than to pay full time support plus the standard place fee in mainstream.