Private school fees - act now for SEND!

Brumtotherescue

Thank you, that's really interesting. I didn't know that. Maybe our parents are funding some or all of the 1:1s as well as the fees then, I don't know!

I'm fairly sure the parents of those 3 children still pay fees as they have been with us since they were tiny and long before they had an EHCP. They got the EHCPs so the children could have a funded 1:1, not so the school fees could be paid.

The problem with this is, unless the independent school is named in section I (and thus responsible for funding the fees and special educational provision), the LA does not have to fund the special educational provision. Sometimes some LAs will come to an arrangement whereby the parents pay the fees and the LA fund the SEP, but they don’t have to. They can and often do say the parents are making suitable alternative arrangements, thereby relieving them of their duty.

I would estimate at least 98% of children with EHCPs in the private sector are in specialist schools.

This isn’t the case. The latest statistics show, of DC with EHCPs, 4.5% are in specialist independent schools. 1.2% are in mainstream independent schools.

We seem to be focusing this debate on high needs as if those with mild SEN can simply get on with it - the huge numbers of young adults on disability, not working, or in jails says otherwise though. Every child matters, and every parent needs to do their best to advocate for theirs.

I asked before - what would make the govt call a SEN emergency? There's no lever, it's absent. SEN spending is something they want to reduce as the system lacks quality and decent measurement of value add to outcomes and so is becoming regarded as a bottomless pit.

Someone asked what made it possible for children with ASD and ADHD to cope without 1:1 support in an indpendent school when they can't in a mainstream.

I suspect that most of the children we have where I work who have ADHD and ASD diagnoses would actually cope in mainstream but less successfully and less happily. Which is of course not what any parent wants but what most parents have no choice on. Someone else mentioned the 'buckets' thing and it's importance in keeping children from being overwhelmed. These are some examples of what we do to stop our SEND children's 'buckets' from overflowing:

1. We have a team of 5 SEND staff who are based in our Learning Hub. Partly this is for 1:1 and small group intervention lessons but, increasingly, its role is pastoral. It is open at break and lunchtimes and after school so that children can access the space and the staff to:

• talk over and calm down from anything that has upset them earlier in the day
• talk over and plan for anything they are worried about that is coming up later in the day
• get on with work (either independently or with help) that they have struggled to complete at the time they were supposed to
• get something to eat if the dining room is overwhelming, they didn't like the food on offer or didn't feel they could eat at the designated time
• have some quiet time, quiet social time or just chat to an adult
• have an indoor space to be themselves and do what they want to do.

Genuinely, I have no idea how many of those things are available in the average primary/middle school (we are a prep so go from age 3 - 13). But, as you can see, it's not really educational provision. Teaching is teaching wherever your child gets it and, in may cases, the best teaching is in in the state schools. But, if there isn't the right set up to keep the child in the right frame of mind to be able to learn, then they won't be happy or able to learn. That's what small, nurturing independents can do for SEND children. In my opinion anyway.

I'm sure there will be examples of state schools that can and do provide all the above. But I doubt it can be the standard of care in a primary with 7 teachers for 7 classes of 30 children and a few desperately overstretched TAs.

To be fair, the OP did ask parents who have children with SEND currently in independent schools to appeal to their MPs. She wasn't asking parents using the state sector to help continue any privilege or advantage for others. That would be crazy. But there's nothing wrong in people taking action to support their own families' interests. Everyone does it. Yes, hopefully people support the interests of those less fortunate too but that's another thread/subject.

I work in a non selective independent school with a reputation for catering well for those with SpLDs, ADHD and ASD. We have lots of pupils who are with us because their parents feel they weren't coping or wouldn't cope in state schools. On the one hand, yes, it's very true that they cope better with us. But, on the other hand, I can see why people reject the claim or get upset by it. Because it's just not an option for 90% of parents with children who have SEND, is it. So the vast majority of these children are still in mainstream schools and are coping because they have to. Some who have more severe needs end up out of education (which is indefensible) but the majority of those will not be the same children as those who are in mainstream private schools. The children we have with SEND are there because their parents can afford it. Are they thriving - yes. Would they be without a school if they had to go to state school - no. I think their parents should absolutely fight to be able to keep them where they are. But I don't think they can expect other parents not to feel aggrieved by it. There's a huge difference between children in specialist independent schools/the very small numbers paid for by the LA in mainstream independents and the large numbers of children with AN/SEN whose parents pay for mainstream independents because it's the better choice for them and they have that choice available to them. I can see why most people wouldn't want the second group to be exempted, especially given how high the numbers in that second group are.

I therefore find it hard to believe there are 100s of children at mainstream (not specialist) private schools who would qualify for EHCPs and their school willingly have them attend
The numbers must be tiny. We have 3 out of 300 with EHCPs and I'm fairly sure the parents of those 3 children still pay fees as they have been with us since they were tiny and long before they had an EHCP. They got the EHCPs so the children could have a funded 1:1, not so the school fees could be paid. And we're a non selective school. Many wouldn't take a child with an EHCP at all.

I would estimate at least 98% of children with EHCPs in the private sector are in specialist schools.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If you can’t afford a ‘quiet private school’ you have to get busy with perfecting that EHCP yourself. Outsourcing is a luxury. Cleaning houses is hard. Looking after kids is hard. Finding the right provision for a child with SEN is hard. Most of us can’t outsource that, we have to help our kids in-house.

Any child that qualifies for an EHCP should have one. The system for obtaining a good one is corrupt in so many ways and grossly unfair on all children with SEN. And their friends and classmates with no SEN. That isn’t any of their fault. The shitty system (thanks Tories) isn’t the parents’ fault either but it shouldn’t be something that parents don’t even think about doing, just because it’s hard.

Efforts should be concentrated on timely assessment, staff training (state and private schools) and overhauling that EHCP system. Staff training would be where I’d allocate a huge chunk of public money, but I’m no politician. These suggestions would benefit all children with SEN not just the ones whose parents can pay.

I'm glad yours are sorted and in the right place but its not as simple as either NT and fine or high needs ND and fine with an easily gained EHCP. There are increasingly lots of kids who fall between those two ends who are coping in small, quiet, pastorally centred indie schools. They are the ones who will fall foul of this.

On one of the other countless threads on this someone crunched the numbers and provided statistical evidence that showed it would actually work out at 1 extra child per school. I think it's a non issue.

Lots of schools where I am have surplus places. It may even be a positive.

What is the benefit to the state system if more children who need support with or without an EHCP move into it?

I got the EHCP (eventually) using tips from Mumsnet and my own research. I did pay a small amount to have the draft checked.

I do have a background in fundraising though.

It is mostly form filling.

The SEN Code 2014 is freely available online, and that's the relevant piece of law.

I know the head of a private school. She says they won't pass on the costs to parents. Instead they will cut staff, not give pay rises, cut equipment budgets etc. You are probably going to be fine.

No they just attend the nearest one to us.

Catchment doesn't make any difference in many areas as its not the priority criteria.

I really wouldn't know as I don't have NT kids.

I do have kids with SEN who have needs are significant enough to sail through the EHCP process without difficulty.

@Willyoujustbequiet - did you get to choose the state offering via the EHCP or did you move into the right catchment?

Where I live we have a few schools known for their excellent SEN departments. The vast majority of people are having to rent or buy in catchment and are not getting it specifically recognised in time. Especially where the SEN is discovered later, as it often is at the more high functioning end of autism, for example. As that is also the group very prone to mental health issues and burn out/crisis, we have to be careful as a society to tread carefully.

Many parents here who say they don’t have the wherewithal or funds to fight for an EHCP - an IPSEA elementary SEN law online course is £350. It will give you all the tools you need to ensure your child gets the support they need, via an EHCP. You are much less likely to need a lawyer (I didn’t end up needing one at all) if you have this basic training. It takes 10-20 hours to complete, depending on your speed/circumstances etc.

I’m an averagely intelligent person and I was able to complete the course easily and use all the information and case laws to compile a case against my LA that I won at tribunal. My son attends an Outstanding state special school which has staff with expertise and experience who all receive regular training. He couldn’t be in a better setting. But if a local private school had been better suited to him we would have pressed to have it named on EHCP.

Long term it will save you tens of thousands of pounds to secure a good EHCP and obtain placement on that basis. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s easier than trying to pay all the bills with ever increasing school fees.

@BibbleandSqwauk I agree with your post and am upset that parent like you are being punished. I already know if at least two small private schools in my country which will undoubtedly close because of this policy. At least 4 have closed over the last decade anyway. Choice has been removed. When I was growing up it was affordable for two parents on teacher salaries to send their kids to a little private school. i am so upset by the demonisation of private school parents and kids.

This is a good analogy. And also it’s not like education is “fair” for children with SEN. If you have a NT child at a good school which suits them well or even a child with SEN who fits in well at a mainstream school they are getting a superior education to a child with SEN who isn’t coping at that school.

There is a huge difference in provision between different schools and areas and it’s luck of the draw if some children get allocated to a school which suits their needs. If you are happy with your child’s state education and it is able to meet their needs that’s fine but it’s very unfair to then argue that children who aren’t getting their needs met in state should just stay there. Because the two children won’t end up in an equal position.

@HelenaWaiting
Is it morally indefensible for parents to use their time, knowledge and education to support their children or is it only when they use money that it’s wrong? Is it morally indefensible, say, for a parent who has worked with disabled children to use that knowledge to support their disabled DC even though other disabled children may not have that “advantage” and may do worse as a result. If I work to earn money to send my DC to private school how is that different to me giving up work to spend time supporting their needs myself? Just a moral issue with outsourcing.

No. I have children with additional needs with EHCPs in good state schools.

I have NT kids who have thrived in the state sector.
I would be happy for SEN kids in the private sector across the board to be VAT exempt. I do not see them as competition to my own DC! Far from it, if some parents invest in their DCs education who need more attention/smaller class sizes/more nurture, then in 10-20 years time we all benefit. Education is a social good and benefits the tax payer as a whole in the future. Attacking education in any shape or form, is a social harm. Especially if it affects vulnerable & disabled children.

SEN in this country at the moment is incredibly embarrassing and in crisis. There are far too many kids stuck at home and their needs not met and we also have a child and teen mental health crisis on our hands.
How is it OK that some people have the council paying out 70k for their DC per annum and other people with kids with the same level of need get nothing and have to home school? How common is that? On the ground, it is not fair at all! It is the usual postcode lottery.

What if it's not superior. Just different?

People assume that the state pays for a Fiesta and people are buying Rolls Royce.

What if the state is paying for a fiesta but your child needs a canoe because their journey is across water not land.

Absolutely @Frowningprovidence and honestly, it looks to me as though we're looking at cuts to SEN funding and that's where the debate is at so if anyone does have good provision they want to keep a close eye.

My experience has been that the council can announce cuts with very small lead times year to year.

Even if you believe there's no more money for SEN. you still need to engage at a local level in conversations about where the money is spent, additional funding is only one aspect of this debate.

I agree that it's clear there is no big plan for education or sen education and no big funding coming in educations direction.

I'm totally at the mercy of the state we cant afford fees. I will continue to fight for better state education for all as I believe some things can be improved within similar budgets.

But unlike others, I am thrilled some people have managed to pay their way out the mess and am more than happy with those people writing to their MP to highlight the issue.

Because private education is morally indefensible. There is no justification on earth for some children getting superior education to others just because their parents are more wealthy. It is a luxury, purchased by parents for their children and if you buy a luxury you pay VAT. I'm only sorry that it can't be backdated.

Do you have an NT child in a decent state school?

Some parents will not have that and will be feeling stressed for other reasons