Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel really gutted for England tonight?

210 replies

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 01:28

This Euros tournament has been quite a crazy ride for England and it’s a tournament I’d rather forget (partly because of the way that Gareth Southgate and the team have been treated by the British press and their own fans).

I think that whilst the team has loads of fantastic world-class players, they haven’t consistently played well as a team, either in the run-up (e.g. in the Iceland or Bosnia games) or in the tournament itself.

I really feel that the team only managed to get through to the final because of moments of individual brilliance (Jude Bellingham’s goal, Ollie Watkins’ goal, Pickford’s absolutely top-notch goalkeeping).

I’m also quite disappointed with elements of Gareth Southgate’s management even though I still really admire his leadership style, his achievements as England manager and his attitude. Southgate has - undeniably - produced consistently excellent results with this team, but they haven’t yet won anything with him, and ultimately they will be judged on winning. They have got close to winning on two occasions now with him, and he and they obviously care for and respect each other, but I don’t think that’s enough anymore (feels harsh to write that).

I think it’s time for the team to find a new manager and go in a new direction, but equally I think it will take time for a new manager to find their feet with England and I worry that the new manager will not be able to create the same sort of culture that Southgate did, which I think really helped to shape this current team and make them so successful.

I know that there can only be one winner in the Euros - just like in any sports competition - but I just really feel for the England players. I’ve followed them for a few years now, they come across as a really nice team and I feel really sorry that it didn’t work out for them tonight.

Focussing on the final tonight, Spain were clearly the better team tonight - and throughout the Euros. Having said that, I do feel quite sad that the England players couldn’t achieve the win they wanted. They obviously really really wanted to win, and I think the team’s performance has overshadowed the individual achievements and excellence of the England players that I mentioned earlier in the post.

I know there will be many more tournaments to come, probably for most players in the team as most of them are still very young and are full of potential, but they had so much expectation riding on them and they came pretty close to winning, having got to the final.

They should feel really proud of themselves for getting to the final and coming close to winning, but I know that they would rather have won than been runners up.

OP posts:
DanielGault · 15/07/2024 14:29

RedSuedePump · 15/07/2024 14:24

England got to the final because of magical
moments of brilliance when it was all or nothing - it almost happened again last night with the last minute corner that was cleared off the line. but they really didn’t play well as a team and eventually your luck will run out - which it did. so they need to work out what went wrong overall given the talent they have. they had a relatively soft route to the final and we’re found really quite lacking when facing Spain.

im a massive fan of what Southgate has done for England - before he came in players didn’t really want to play for england, and they’d lost a lot of support from the public for off pitch stuff. the work he has done to address the issues surrounding penalty shoot outs and the fear factor of playing for england is why we have got as far as we have in recent tournaments

However tactically something seemed off this time - we were too slow to make changes and stuck with players who weren’t performing rather than mixing it up earlier in games or pressing on to try to win matches.

having said all that - if Gareth wants to stay for one more go at the World Cup - i think he’s earned that chance. the players clearly adore him. i think he will have had enough though and go.

Just looking at the post match interactions, he does seem to have a lovely and genuine relationship with the players. It's rare enough to see that nowadays and really nice. It's a pity more managers aren't like that tbh. Especially given that players start so young now, they really need a steady hand. They're kids under a glaring spotlight.

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:28

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

The main reason for GS leaving would just be for the sake of change, because he’s been in the role for so long and not yet won anything. I know Eddie Howe is only a suggested candidate, but the main thing in his favour is that he’s got top level management experience and… he’s English. That’s not really a clear indication that he’d be any better at the job than GS.

OP posts:
Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:26

Hatfullofwillow · 15/07/2024 14:18

The better team won. I've a lot of time for what Southgate has achieved, England were a mess before his appointment, but they are never going to win anything playing like that.

I'd like the FA to find a meaningful role for him, what he's done in turning around the culture of the National team shouldn't be underestimated. The way he's handled himself throughout has been exemplary.

There was actually a suggestion in the national press yesterday that, regardless of the outcome of yesterday’s match, he might be offered a seat in the House of Lords.

I know that sounds ridiculous and overblown, and it is only a rumour. I do think though that he’d bring a lot to the role in terms of experience, wisdom and approach. This would not only be a way to recognise his achievements so far but it would give him a real opportunity to continue making an impact (much more so than him simply getting an honour, like a knighthood, which I think he also deserves). In terms of him getting a seat in the House of Lords, if not now, then one day. Partly because something tells me that his time with this team is not yet over.

OP posts:
Goatblower · 15/07/2024 14:26

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

RedSuedePump · 15/07/2024 14:24

England got to the final because of magical
moments of brilliance when it was all or nothing - it almost happened again last night with the last minute corner that was cleared off the line. but they really didn’t play well as a team and eventually your luck will run out - which it did. so they need to work out what went wrong overall given the talent they have. they had a relatively soft route to the final and we’re found really quite lacking when facing Spain.

im a massive fan of what Southgate has done for England - before he came in players didn’t really want to play for england, and they’d lost a lot of support from the public for off pitch stuff. the work he has done to address the issues surrounding penalty shoot outs and the fear factor of playing for england is why we have got as far as we have in recent tournaments

However tactically something seemed off this time - we were too slow to make changes and stuck with players who weren’t performing rather than mixing it up earlier in games or pressing on to try to win matches.

having said all that - if Gareth wants to stay for one more go at the World Cup - i think he’s earned that chance. the players clearly adore him. i think he will have had enough though and go.

Mymanyellow · 15/07/2024 14:20

Noraise · 15/07/2024 06:53

32 teams . Not 20

24

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:20

Idontpostmuch · 15/07/2024 13:58

@KnickerlessParsons Uhhhm, well... if Scotland ever made it past the first round, we'd be delighted. I just cannot understand why this is such a tragedy. England have done brilliantly. All this talk about how such a good team should be winning reminds me of one of the Harry Potter books. The Minister for Magic meets the muggle Prime Minister and tries to convince him the world's at risk. The muggle PM retorts that they should be able to fix it since 'you people can do magic.' The M for M gives him a pitying glance and says 'yes, but the other side can do magic too.' Spain are a good team too. Someone has to be runner up. You're right. England's performance should be a cause for celebration.

I think it’s because England are judged on very different standards to Scotland. This is partly because of a historic win (1966 World Cup), which I think we all know deep down is irrelevant and an illogical standard to hold England to, and partly because of GS’s consistently good record as manager so far. And also because we - England - are quite an arrogant footballing nation 😂😂

To GS and his team’s enormous credit though, they have not only had an excellent run of performances since he started as England manager but they have also helped to exchange our national arrogance and complacency for resilience, excitement, hope and a real sense of pride. That is an amazing achievement and one of the reasons why GS is a hero for me.

OP posts:
Meepmeeplittle · 15/07/2024 14:20

He does seem to have managed to stop his players ( mostly) from behaving like arseholes. On and off the pitch. So fair play to him there.

Hatfullofwillow · 15/07/2024 14:18

The better team won. I've a lot of time for what Southgate has achieved, England were a mess before his appointment, but they are never going to win anything playing like that.

I'd like the FA to find a meaningful role for him, what he's done in turning around the culture of the National team shouldn't be underestimated. The way he's handled himself throughout has been exemplary.

Goatblower · 15/07/2024 14:18

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

LlynTegid · 15/07/2024 14:16

Cheeseandpickleroll · 15/07/2024 13:45

Are people saying Novak Djokovic is a rubbish player and needs to quit or change management because he came 2nd yesterday?

I have no view on his tennis ability, but as he is an anti-vaxxer, would be happy to see him out of the public eye.

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:15

DanielGault · 15/07/2024 14:07

It's the way the media go on as if they've won it before they've ever played a match. They're so dismissive about the opposition, whoever that happens to be. It's really off putting! Tbf neither the team nor GS were guilty of this.

100% agree.

OP posts:
DanielGault · 15/07/2024 14:07

BlowDryRat · 15/07/2024 14:01

Spain deserved to win but England's achievement in getting to the final should be celebrated too. I really dislike the personal criticism levelled at Southgate and some of the players. It seems that the English media and a large section of the fan base aren't very good at being supporters, just armchair critics.

It's the way the media go on as if they've won it before they've ever played a match. They're so dismissive about the opposition, whoever that happens to be. It's really off putting! Tbf neither the team nor GS were guilty of this.

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:07

BlowDryRat · 15/07/2024 14:01

Spain deserved to win but England's achievement in getting to the final should be celebrated too. I really dislike the personal criticism levelled at Southgate and some of the players. It seems that the English media and a large section of the fan base aren't very good at being supporters, just armchair critics.

Me too - I completely agree. I often feel like saying to them - if you feel like you could do a better job, why not go for it and apply for the manager’s position 😂😂

I think part of the problem has actually been Gareth Southgate’s success. Because of his success, people generally expect the team to get very far in tournament they’re playing in, whatever happens, which is obviously unrealistic and ridiculous (and then they criticise GS and the team for not achieving that unattainable expectation). He is dealing exceptionally well with the pressure he is under.

OP posts:
BlowDryRat · 15/07/2024 14:01

Spain deserved to win but England's achievement in getting to the final should be celebrated too. I really dislike the personal criticism levelled at Southgate and some of the players. It seems that the English media and a large section of the fan base aren't very good at being supporters, just armchair critics.

Meepmeeplittle · 15/07/2024 13:59

pikkumyy77 · 15/07/2024 11:56

Should the second place team be executed? Discuss!

😅😅 no but they probably need a new manager

Idontpostmuch · 15/07/2024 13:58

KnickerlessParsons · 15/07/2024 02:28

England didn't lose. They came second out of the 20 (?) teams in the tournament, not to mention all the others that didn't make it that far.
If your child won a silver medal at the Olympics you'd be delighted.

It's all the media hype and the "coming home" crap that winds everyone up that makes you feel like a loser. Coming second is brilliant. If Wales came second I and the rest of the Welsh nation would be over the bloody moon.

@KnickerlessParsons Uhhhm, well... if Scotland ever made it past the first round, we'd be delighted. I just cannot understand why this is such a tragedy. England have done brilliantly. All this talk about how such a good team should be winning reminds me of one of the Harry Potter books. The Minister for Magic meets the muggle Prime Minister and tries to convince him the world's at risk. The muggle PM retorts that they should be able to fix it since 'you people can do magic.' The M for M gives him a pitying glance and says 'yes, but the other side can do magic too.' Spain are a good team too. Someone has to be runner up. You're right. England's performance should be a cause for celebration.

davegrohll · 15/07/2024 13:58

Looking at tickets for the World Cup I am 😆 it's in America !

davegrohll · 15/07/2024 13:57

I don't think Southgate will resign. I think he's got one more go in him.

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 13:55

GPTec1 · 15/07/2024 11:41

I think if we really had so many world class players, we'd win more/play better.
We always seem to have this "Golden Generation" yet perform so badly, despite so many different managers over the years.

It’s not as simple as that though! There are so so many variables to consider around how far a team will get in a tournament. We do have a lot of world class players and we still did well - we just didn’t win. But this has to be taken into context alongside a lot of other factors too.

As an example, France and Germany have lots of world-class players and they didn’t make it as far as England in this Euros. And Spain didn’t shine in the last Euros or previous 2 World Cups either.

OP posts:
Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 13:50

Thepartnersdesk · 15/07/2024 09:37

Southgate won't be sacked. But he's been doing the job a long time and it is likely he'll step away after this one so it felt like his last chance.

There's been remarkably little talk of him being sacked over his tenure. His track record speaks for itself and consistency has reaped rewards (just not the big one unfortunately).

I agree - I doubt he’ll be sacked.

But he might question how much more he can give, now he’s been in the role for 8 years and come so agonisingly close to winning so regularly and also following the horrible criticism of him in this year’s Euros.

He’s done an incredible job since he’s started in the role, but not yet won anything, which whilst being a very ambitious aim, is probably his main objective.

I would really like him to stay on in the role though, if he wants to.

OP posts:
Cheeseandpickleroll · 15/07/2024 13:45

Are people saying Novak Djokovic is a rubbish player and needs to quit or change management because he came 2nd yesterday?

Londonrach1 · 15/07/2024 13:40

They came second. Wow. Mind you football bores me. Managed 10 minutes last night. However coming second is amazing surely. Yabu.

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 13:38

DramaLlamaBangBang · 15/07/2024 11:46

And so many different players! Maybe what we have are good players with world class teammates? Pickford is outstanding. Without him we would be nowhere near the final, which says a lot.

Pickford is fabulous. He is amazing for his Premier League team (Everton) and for England. I’m a big fan of his and I hope he stays in the England squad for many years to come.

OP posts:
Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 13:34

Anothershapeofapple · 15/07/2024 08:42

I have read / heard in the media that Harry Kane caused Tottenham to feel disconnected as a team as well. So maybe there’s some truth to that after all. Not good for a Captain!

Anyway! Here’s to next time 🥂

I doubt that (I’ve been a long standing Spurs fan). Do you have a link to an article that says that?

OP posts: