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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel really gutted for England tonight?

210 replies

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 01:28

This Euros tournament has been quite a crazy ride for England and it’s a tournament I’d rather forget (partly because of the way that Gareth Southgate and the team have been treated by the British press and their own fans).

I think that whilst the team has loads of fantastic world-class players, they haven’t consistently played well as a team, either in the run-up (e.g. in the Iceland or Bosnia games) or in the tournament itself.

I really feel that the team only managed to get through to the final because of moments of individual brilliance (Jude Bellingham’s goal, Ollie Watkins’ goal, Pickford’s absolutely top-notch goalkeeping).

I’m also quite disappointed with elements of Gareth Southgate’s management even though I still really admire his leadership style, his achievements as England manager and his attitude. Southgate has - undeniably - produced consistently excellent results with this team, but they haven’t yet won anything with him, and ultimately they will be judged on winning. They have got close to winning on two occasions now with him, and he and they obviously care for and respect each other, but I don’t think that’s enough anymore (feels harsh to write that).

I think it’s time for the team to find a new manager and go in a new direction, but equally I think it will take time for a new manager to find their feet with England and I worry that the new manager will not be able to create the same sort of culture that Southgate did, which I think really helped to shape this current team and make them so successful.

I know that there can only be one winner in the Euros - just like in any sports competition - but I just really feel for the England players. I’ve followed them for a few years now, they come across as a really nice team and I feel really sorry that it didn’t work out for them tonight.

Focussing on the final tonight, Spain were clearly the better team tonight - and throughout the Euros. Having said that, I do feel quite sad that the England players couldn’t achieve the win they wanted. They obviously really really wanted to win, and I think the team’s performance has overshadowed the individual achievements and excellence of the England players that I mentioned earlier in the post.

I know there will be many more tournaments to come, probably for most players in the team as most of them are still very young and are full of potential, but they had so much expectation riding on them and they came pretty close to winning, having got to the final.

They should feel really proud of themselves for getting to the final and coming close to winning, but I know that they would rather have won than been runners up.

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ilovesooty · 15/07/2024 15:16

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:13

I know you’re trying to say that the draw was kind to England, and it was, but this still sounds so dismissive. I think variables comes into this too. The teams looked easy to play on paper, but not so much in reality - they were not easy to play against. I hope you watched the actual games against those teams, because that would have shown how hard they were to play against.

Yes, I did.

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:13

ilovesooty · 15/07/2024 15:00

Yes, but France and Germany were in the same half of the draw as Spain and both lost to them. We didn't have to play Spain until the final. It's undeniable that England as it turned out were in the easier part of the draw.

I know you’re trying to say that the draw was kind to England, and it was, but this still sounds so dismissive. I think variables comes into this too. The teams looked easy to play on paper, but not so much in reality - they were not easy to play against. I hope you watched the actual games against those teams, because that would have shown how hard they were to play against.

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DanielGault · 15/07/2024 15:11

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:05

I see where you’re coming from, but also think that applying that logic to sport and life is quite a miserable way to live, tbh. It also completely goes against the spirit of sportsmanship, where one of the main lessons - despite often being bloody hard to live by - is how to lose well.

Exactly! Imagine if all the kids came back from sports days dumping their 'meaningless' silver medals in the bin! What sort of sporting adults would they end up as with that attitude?

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:05

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I see where you’re coming from, but also think that applying that logic to sport and life is quite a miserable way to live, tbh. It also completely goes against the spirit of sportsmanship, where one of the main lessons - despite often being bloody hard to live by - is how to lose well.

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Spamcastanet · 15/07/2024 15:03

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Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:01

ilovesooty · 15/07/2024 15:00

Yes, but France and Germany were in the same half of the draw as Spain and both lost to them. We didn't have to play Spain until the final. It's undeniable that England as it turned out were in the easier part of the draw.

I absolutely agree. That’s exactly what I mean by the variables to think about, as that’s one of them.

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DanielGault · 15/07/2024 15:01

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That's a terrible attitude. Sometimes you just have to accept that someone else was better than you on the day. With good grace.

ilovesooty · 15/07/2024 15:00

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 13:55

It’s not as simple as that though! There are so so many variables to consider around how far a team will get in a tournament. We do have a lot of world class players and we still did well - we just didn’t win. But this has to be taken into context alongside a lot of other factors too.

As an example, France and Germany have lots of world-class players and they didn’t make it as far as England in this Euros. And Spain didn’t shine in the last Euros or previous 2 World Cups either.

Yes, but France and Germany were in the same half of the draw as Spain and both lost to them. We didn't have to play Spain until the final. It's undeniable that England as it turned out were in the easier part of the draw.

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:54

Hatfullofwillow · 15/07/2024 14:48

Howe would almost certainly play Anthony Gordon for more than 6 minutes though.

Maybe. The main reason for this is probably because Gordon is a solid and reliable part of Howe’s current set-up at Newcastle. But I dont really understand how useful that line of thinking is because it’s all hypothetical. We have no way of knowing if that would improve England’s performance or results.

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Spamcastanet · 15/07/2024 14:53

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DanielGault · 15/07/2024 14:52

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I assume lots of people will have lots of varying opinions on those two as well. He got the job.

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:51

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I appreciate that, but it really is a moot point, because we’re judging GS on his solid England record and we haven’t got a comparable record to judge Neville or Lampard on. Yes, GS was sacked by Boro - and Lampard was sacked from Chelsea - but we don’t have any further evidence to judge Neville or Lampard on.

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TansySorrel · 15/07/2024 14:50

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 09:00

The idea that coming second is brilliant is exactly why we never win 🙄

Yes, the team's performance was definitely affected by comments on mumsnet. 🙄😄

Hatfullofwillow · 15/07/2024 14:48

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:28

The main reason for GS leaving would just be for the sake of change, because he’s been in the role for so long and not yet won anything. I know Eddie Howe is only a suggested candidate, but the main thing in his favour is that he’s got top level management experience and… he’s English. That’s not really a clear indication that he’d be any better at the job than GS.

Howe would almost certainly play Anthony Gordon for more than 6 minutes though.

Sweetenuf2 · 15/07/2024 14:48

I’m Scottish but I was rooting for England! I think a lot of the criticism Southgate gets is unfair.

They weren’t even getting to finals before him! Some of these armchair critics needs to wind it in.

IMO they played well but Spain played better and were the stronger teamthroughout the tournament. Maybe next time.

Kriscross · 15/07/2024 14:46

I felt gutted for them too.

The Spanish team were better overall but rolled around on the floor for most of the added on time to waste time.

England had some very close shots towards the end with Oli Watkins messing up a clear chance, with no one near him. I'd kane had done that he would have been slaughtered in the news.

Next Time hopefully

Goatblower · 15/07/2024 14:44

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DanielGault · 15/07/2024 14:43

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Most managers will have been let go from somewhere. It's part of the game.

DanielGault · 15/07/2024 14:42

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:34

Spain’s victory was well deserved, but England still did very well and I think it’s important to recognise that.

It comes across here as if you’re not
happy with any result from England unless it’s a tournament win - which is obviously completely unrealistic.

I am being slightly facetious with my next comment, but for your own wellbeing and peace of mind, I do hope you don’t place comparably high standards on yourself or your friends/family/colleagues…

That's it though isn't it! You have the media blowing so much smoke up everyone's arses that it's almost sold as a done deal before the competition has even started. The media are awful for it. Over in Ireland, we do a far better job of expectations management (mainly because we don't qualify for anything anymore 😂). But we're pretty much a mixture of grateful/relieved when we do qualify for something, and I think we do very much recognise our limitations.

Goatblower · 15/07/2024 14:41

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Blondeshavemorefun · 15/07/2024 14:40

KnickerlessParsons · 15/07/2024 02:28

England didn't lose. They came second out of the 20 (?) teams in the tournament, not to mention all the others that didn't make it that far.
If your child won a silver medal at the Olympics you'd be delighted.

It's all the media hype and the "coming home" crap that winds everyone up that makes you feel like a loser. Coming second is brilliant. If Wales came second I and the rest of the Welsh nation would be over the bloody moon.

This

They came second

Amazing in World Cup

I'm not a lover of football

They get paid far too much for a sport of Running and kicking a ball

Saying all that. It was England so I watched

But in the end it's a game

No one died

Goatblower · 15/07/2024 14:38

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Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:37

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Have Lineker or Ferdinand ever coached a football team? No. Have Neville and Lampard ever got a team they’ve coached such consistently good results as Southgate has? No. I think that tells us all we need to know. All of them are absolutely entitled to their opinions, of course, but they should ultimately be taken with a pinch of salt.

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Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 14:34

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Spain’s victory was well deserved, but England still did very well and I think it’s important to recognise that.

It comes across here as if you’re not
happy with any result from England unless it’s a tournament win - which is obviously completely unrealistic.

I am being slightly facetious with my next comment, but for your own wellbeing and peace of mind, I do hope you don’t place comparably high standards on yourself or your friends/family/colleagues…

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Goatblower · 15/07/2024 14:31

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