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Original poster

To feel really gutted for England tonight?

210 replies

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 01:28

This Euros tournament has been quite a crazy ride for England and it’s a tournament I’d rather forget (partly because of the way that Gareth Southgate and the team have been treated by the British press and their own fans).

I think that whilst the team has loads of fantastic world-class players, they haven’t consistently played well as a team, either in the run-up (e.g. in the Iceland or Bosnia games) or in the tournament itself.

I really feel that the team only managed to get through to the final because of moments of individual brilliance (Jude Bellingham’s goal, Ollie Watkins’ goal, Pickford’s absolutely top-notch goalkeeping).

I’m also quite disappointed with elements of Gareth Southgate’s management even though I still really admire his leadership style, his achievements as England manager and his attitude. Southgate has - undeniably - produced consistently excellent results with this team, but they haven’t yet won anything with him, and ultimately they will be judged on winning. They have got close to winning on two occasions now with him, and he and they obviously care for and respect each other, but I don’t think that’s enough anymore (feels harsh to write that).

I think it’s time for the team to find a new manager and go in a new direction, but equally I think it will take time for a new manager to find their feet with England and I worry that the new manager will not be able to create the same sort of culture that Southgate did, which I think really helped to shape this current team and make them so successful.

I know that there can only be one winner in the Euros - just like in any sports competition - but I just really feel for the England players. I’ve followed them for a few years now, they come across as a really nice team and I feel really sorry that it didn’t work out for them tonight.

Focussing on the final tonight, Spain were clearly the better team tonight - and throughout the Euros. Having said that, I do feel quite sad that the England players couldn’t achieve the win they wanted. They obviously really really wanted to win, and I think the team’s performance has overshadowed the individual achievements and excellence of the England players that I mentioned earlier in the post.

I know there will be many more tournaments to come, probably for most players in the team as most of them are still very young and are full of potential, but they had so much expectation riding on them and they came pretty close to winning, having got to the final.

They should feel really proud of themselves for getting to the final and coming close to winning, but I know that they would rather have won than been runners up.

OP posts:
malificent7 · 15/07/2024 16:27

We were totally outclassed.
The Spanish are a sporty nation. I used to work there...they have the climate on their side, they are very outdoorsy and fit and have fire in their belly.

DanielGault · 15/07/2024 16:25

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 16:01

I definitely don't expect to consistently win, we never consistently win anything 😂 and this is exactly why.

They've chosen to make all those "sacrifices" to earn millions and then lose the Euros, so I don't feel massively sorry for them. They're not heroes, they're footballers and not especially good ones, we give Southgate an OBE and he hasn't managed them to victory- that's exactly what I mean by rewarding losing

You say "lose the euros" as if it's yours to win. It's not.

WildLemur · 15/07/2024 16:25

I don't think Southgate is a particularly good manager. England have had remarkably favorable draws for each of the major tournaments he had been manager for.

Spain had to beat several big teams on their way to the final (Italy, Germany, France and Croatia).

The only major team England had to play was the Netherlands.

It was similar at Euro 2020 (where England also benefited a lot from home advantage).

I'd ascribe England's recent relative success (compared to previous tournaments) more to luck of the draw than anything else.

Southgate has managed to avoid any hugely disastrous results, which is something, but I think various prior England managers have been at least as good as Southgate but that stars have aligned perfectly for England in recent times.

ilovesooty · 15/07/2024 16:23

orchiddottyback · 15/07/2024 16:08

Well Im sure they can drown their sorrows in their overinflated pay cheques and egos.

For the amount of money they make they were rubbish plain, the only reason they were in that final was pure luck of the lowest skilled teams in their previous games.

Edited

I don't think any money will make them feel better about the disappointment. They weren't as good as Spain but I don't think it's fair to suggest that money and ego tripping will make it easier for them to be on the losing side.

orchiddottyback · 15/07/2024 16:08

Well Im sure they can drown their sorrows in their overinflated pay cheques and egos.

For the amount of money they make they were rubbish plain, the only reason they were in that final was pure luck of the lowest skilled teams in their previous games.

DanielGault · 15/07/2024 16:04

ilovesooty · 15/07/2024 16:01

Yes they were. Having said that I don't think the team selection always helped.

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My H (who is more knowledgeable than I) said he was trying to fit everyone in, regardless of whether they actually fitted together in a coherent system. Like he was afraid to bench a big name.

ilovesooty · 15/07/2024 16:01

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:24

Did you think the other teams were hard to play against? Regardless of the fact they might have been the easiest draw, they were still hard to play against.

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Yes they were. Having said that I don't think the team selection always helped.

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 16:01

I definitely don't expect to consistently win, we never consistently win anything 😂 and this is exactly why.

They've chosen to make all those "sacrifices" to earn millions and then lose the Euros, so I don't feel massively sorry for them. They're not heroes, they're footballers and not especially good ones, we give Southgate an OBE and he hasn't managed them to victory- that's exactly what I mean by rewarding losing

DanielGault · 15/07/2024 15:59

Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:55

I don’t know because I didn’t manage them! Are you seriously even trying to go down this route. I’m pretty astonished that, for many people on this thread, winning is the be all and end al. And if someone doesn’t win, you’re quite happy to attack and insult them. I hope you don’t have this sort of attitude with your families at home. If you do, I really feel for your kids. And I’m being absolutely serious.

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It's been this way for the last 20 years at least. Build them up and then kick them when they're down. Media frenzy of its coming home, public buy in to that, then indignation when someone has the cheek to beat them. Southgate and the team don't seem to buy into that but media/lots of fans do.

SSBBW · 15/07/2024 15:59

You're missing the point as previous PP have said. We'd rather they had played some football and gone out earlier. Winning isnt the be all and end all. In fact if they'd won it would have been the hollow of hollowest victories.

Original poster
Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:55

SSBBW · 15/07/2024 15:52

if you love them so much the why did the team not turn up for the first 6 games. just passed it about, no attack in them at all

I don’t know because I didn’t manage them! Are you seriously even trying to go down this route. I’m pretty astonished that, for many people on this thread, winning is the be all and end al. And if someone doesn’t win, you’re quite happy to attack and insult them. I hope you don’t have this sort of attitude with your families at home. If you do, I really feel for your kids. And I’m being absolutely serious.

OP posts:
Original poster
Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:53

SSBBW · 15/07/2024 15:38

England only played when they were a goal down! When they were level they backed off. A team of cowards managed by one.

I agree in a way with your first sentence. I absolutely disagree with your last sentence. They’re not cowards ffs.

OP posts:
SSBBW · 15/07/2024 15:52

if you love them so much the why did the team not turn up for the first 6 games. just passed it about, no attack in them at all

Original poster
Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:51

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 15:32

Its definitely part of the psychology of it, we like an underdog, and we still say we're proud of footballers even when they don't win - other countries don't celebrate losers like we do

I think we’re very good at supporting and consoling people when they lose/don’t win, but that doesn’t mean we’ve created an incentive for teams to lose.

That’s complete rubbish and actually really disrespectful.

I can assure you that every single player on that pitch last night - the English and Spanish players - and both managers were all desperate to win. They wouldn’t have got to that stage if they weren’t.

What we saw on that pitch last night - and what we’re now all judging those players on - is 0.00001% of what they’re capable of and what they’ve been through to reach that stage.

All of them have played football since they were young children - probably about five or six, maybe even earlier - and they must have started competing at progressively higher levels not long after that. That means they have all been playing high level sport for anything between ten and twenty years. Can you imagine all the sacrifices they and their families and friends have all made to make that possible?

Let’s also not forget that there can only be one winner. And England still came second.

And you then dare to come out with this idea that they are playing to lose??

OP posts:
DanielGault · 15/07/2024 15:50

And why do you expect to consistently win? You're not owed these medals/ trophies.

DanielGault · 15/07/2024 15:49

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 15:46

It's not just my attitude, it's across the country - we celebrate losing and we're giving out prizes for doing our best and we're just happy to be there- I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad attitude but it's why we don't consistently win

When the Olympics starts then you'll see it there too, a runner will come fourth or fifth and just say they're happy they beat their personal best 🙄 - it's the winner's personal best they need to beat not their own

Seriously, it's a really terrible attitude. The only thing you can do is your best like. It's as simple as that. There's no point worrying about other people's PBs. You can only do your best. Whether that merits a win depends on the competition.

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 15:46

It's not just my attitude, it's across the country - we celebrate losing and we're giving out prizes for doing our best and we're just happy to be there- I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad attitude but it's why we don't consistently win

When the Olympics starts then you'll see it there too, a runner will come fourth or fifth and just say they're happy they beat their personal best 🙄 - it's the winner's personal best they need to beat not their own

UptheHoop · 15/07/2024 15:44

If they'd won the tournament it would have been a robbery

JustAVeryWeirdWoman · 15/07/2024 15:43

The English team was extremely, extremely lucky to get so far. They had a very easy draw and still barely made it. I watched all the games and it wasn't that the other teams were so great (until Spain): it was that England was frankly pretty bad.

I think English supporters should be very happy with this result, which is above and beyond the quality of the team's game. Runner-up is still pretty great. When the years pass what will remain written down is that the team played the final; nobody will remember the poor play. No reason to be upset!

SSBBW · 15/07/2024 15:38

England only played when they were a goal down! When they were level they backed off. A team of cowards managed by one.

DanielGault · 15/07/2024 15:36

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 15:32

Its definitely part of the psychology of it, we like an underdog, and we still say we're proud of footballers even when they don't win - other countries don't celebrate losers like we do

That's a really terrible attitude fgs. Look at the footage of Ireland coming home from Italia 90, we celebrated 'losers' in a big way. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. I suppose we didn't feel entitled to a trophy?

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 15:32

Its definitely part of the psychology of it, we like an underdog, and we still say we're proud of footballers even when they don't win - other countries don't celebrate losers like we do

ComingUpTrumps · 15/07/2024 15:26

Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 15:24

It's not just a mumsnet view that second place is great. It's across the UK, we love a loser and that's why we lose.

That’s not ‘why’ we lose 🙄🙄 come on, Shoxfordian. No one sets out to lose.

Original poster
Acapulco12 · 15/07/2024 15:24

ilovesooty · 15/07/2024 15:16

Yes, I did.

Show quote history

Did you think the other teams were hard to play against? Regardless of the fact they might have been the easiest draw, they were still hard to play against.

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 15/07/2024 15:24

It's not just a mumsnet view that second place is great. It's across the UK, we love a loser and that's why we lose.