Why doesn't England have a National Anthem?

I think this thread part-way illustrates why some of us don't exactly help ourselves.

I think that half of the problem is that being English is seen as something to be ashamed of rather than something to be proud of, particularly because most people hate us, and often with good reason. So having any sort of national anthem just seems embarrassing.

We have There'll Always be an England and Rule Britannia. We also have Jerusalem of course although I prefer the Spitting Image version that ends "until we have built Jerusalem and made it look like Milton Keynes".

Flanders and Swann wrote a very tongue in cheek National Anthem about sixty years ago.

It's called "The English, The English, The English are Best, I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the Rest".

It's extremely offensive by modern standards though 😂🤭

It’s used as a metaphor, though. For a place of love and peace. Ironic.

This hasn't been my experience. I've always heard Murray talked about as Scottish and proudly so. I've never heard him described as English.

But he was always being pushed on us as being English because he had lived in England for a number of years. Scotland dont have many successful sports achieved, so guess most of us just thought "let them have him" because the Scottish were making such a big deal of it.

The previous alternative, Scotland The Brave, does have a rousing melody - but no one knows the words, and when you look them up they lack the nostalgic reflection and call-to-action that Flower Of Scotland has.

All true but not the doing of “the English “ as a whole. The clue is in your post- English landowners, the aristocracy and ruling classes In Victorian times there were plenty of oppressed English people. More recently not all English people agree with the government. I don’t like the Twll dyn bob Sais attitude.

@Livelovebehappy if you think that football fans from other parts of the UK felt England were playing on their behalf, you are mistaken

And, TBH, this attitude of "England = UK" does not go down well

My Facebook feed was full of people cooking paella, hosting tapas parties etc. I don't like the "I'll support whoever's playing against England" mentality, but it's definitely a thing

I think people are being a bit hard on GSTK. It sounded great being roared out across a stadium, back in the days when the average person could sing. On the other hand, those were the days then the stadium was liable to be ripped up by said fans.

But compare it to other countries' anthems: generally territorial pissings or about putting a sword up their neighbours' collective groin. It's not that bad.

😂

I suppose at least it's rousing, which is not a descriptive that can be applied to the current dirge and its servility to elitist rulers, whether religious or secular. The colonial context might be offputting, as it is with so much of British history that's charged with the taint of this. That said, 'Les Marseilles' is full of gruesome bloodshed ...

But I agree that's a far better option than 'Jerusalem'. There would be an irony implied in adopting this as a British anthem that doesn't even need pointing out.

Ideal for sporting events. Especially with football, it’s lots of hope and not very much glory.

Scotland does not have an official national anthem.

It's a hotly debated topic in Scotland without agreement.

Whilst Flower of Scotland is often sung it's not official.

I suggest Mr Brightside. It’s practically a British anthem it’ll slot in just nicely

They do it’s something about telling the Spanish to stick tapas up theirs

Doesn't matter, we wouldn't sing it properly. And we're not allowed to be proud of being English anymore anyway.

No one does the National Anthem quite like Italy. They absolutely go for it. It's fantastic.

It is it 'nah nah nah nah nah nah nah' that bloody football chant!

Because it wasn't an English win 😂

I agree with you about the sectarianism. Self-determination seems not to apply to NI Unionists, which is probably the reason for their porcupine strategy over the years.

Funny. I thought it was the norm to regard e.g. Sweden, Denmark etc as civilised or at least European.

You seem to be incredibly angry - why is that? You still don’t appear to be understanding of the point I was making. - whether you consider Christianity to be “utter twaddle” is irrelevant - the fact remains that the current institutions and traditions of the UK were built on the back of Christian thinking, it’s art, philosophy- all are better understood with a good knowledge of Christianity. It’s irrelevant what the current view is regarding separation of church and state in the UK. it’s important to understand the past to understand the present and that involves a good knowledge of the Christian faith.

France has an interesting past, and of course, was the site of a crusade backed by the French elite to annihilate thousands of its own people, and is often quoted as being the place of the first genocide. The French monarchy have a chequered past in this regard. Then we have the appalling French Revolution- one could say French history is littered with genocide allegedly in the name of fairness but often with very secular motives. That might help you understand the current set up in France.

Im not even sure what you mean by “you have a bit of Last Night of the Proms about you” - possibly something you think sounds good and edgy but in a completely empty statement.

And yes, I do love my country. It’s a strange person who doesn’t - it’s a basic reaction of human nature, to want to belong and be protective of your tribe. When one rejects one’s own society/country then it leaves that person as an island and that has disastrous implications for all.

Not sure where you get the idea that patronising a complete stranger with you "don't understand" is ever appropriate, let alone civil conduct. Those finer points of British upbringing obviously passed you by. I "understand" just fine. I just think it's utter twaddle, bears no relevance to a modern nation, and, as I pointed out, is not how other civilised European countries go about this stuff. The concept of separation of faith and state serves those nations just fine. I am sure you think England is superior to those - you have a bit of a Last Night of the Proms about you. But it's not.

I don’t think you really understand. Our society has been built on a Christian faith for the past 1500 odd years. Many of our institutions and traditions - the very fabric of our Society is interwoven with Christianity.,

Its immaterial whether people have faith in this context- what is really important is people understand it whether they’re a Christian, atheist, agnostic,Muslim etc

In what way does Christianity make sense of our society? Most other European countries, eg France, keep faith and state very very strictly apart. What percentage lead a life of Christian faith? Tiny.

I always thought land of hope and glory was the English anthem (and it’s a total banger) but then I heard somewhere that it was racist so I’ll get back in my box.