Why doesn't England have a National Anthem?

But with so little time, why concentrate on the British Empire? Surely if you want to illustrate the concept of divide and conquer- what better place to start than Alexander the Great (the phrase allegedly came from his Dad) after all this is what so many civilisations who tried to emulate Alexander have copied. What Britain did was simply emulate something which had been done by multiple civilisations over the millennia, there was not much particularly unique to it apart from being the most successful out of its contemporaries.

The “look at the big nasty British Empire” rhetoric is rather disingenuous if it’s not taught in the above way. In every conflict, in every change of borders, every time two cultures clash there’s winners and losers.

@Devonbabs when were you born ?
Attitudes have changed. British history has affected many people very negatively. We cannot teach children Rule Britannia style lessons we would be teaching ignorance and ignoring some British children's history. Mostly we learnt English history and that had to change.

There's only so much time to teach history and so much to cover. I think that children should be taught about the negatives of the Empire and particularly the policy of divide and rule which has repercussions today.

I think it’s important that the age of Empires is taught. It was a period when many countries were colonising various parts of the world. European countries were particularly successful for several different reasons and arguably out of all the various countries colonising other areas of the world England was particularly successful.

There’s a long history of various empires, Mongolian, Alexandrian, ottoman, Roman etc etc. All have had both positive and negative effects on the people and territories they acquired. When we look at the Roman Empire here we don’t start hand wringing demanding reparations etc. History is what it is. We have to judge people by the standards of their day.

When I say teach British History, traditionally it has been taught in a certain way, key points. As you say British history is very long, there have been key points that have shaped Britain. Having a unified understanding of the past brings a country together. When we allow history to be taught in a revisionist moralistic manner then is can be used to divide rather than unite.

I think they're referring to the British Empire and the dreadful things we did to people in other countries. I could be wrong but I do believe the Empire is covered in history but perhaps not enough is taught, I don't know but British history is very long and covers a lot.

No one’s history is “nice” but British history is very predominant white history isn’t it? How can you think otherwise? There’s been a smattering of people who aren’t white here across the centuries - but 99.9% of our major historical occurrences have been white yes, because Britain has always been an overwhelmingly white country. What are you suggesting?

Btw not that I want to upset the Lancashirians but the best black pudding in the world is from Clonakilty.

I'm a Lancashire/yorkshire mongrel (with a dash of Welsh) but the only edible black pudding I've encountered yet is Stornoway. I'll try to remember to try your recommendation sometime.

You mean White British Culture and White British History, don't you? Just say it. The Victorians and the British Empire without all the awkward colonial bits. The Kings and Queens of England, but without too much about the peasants. A little bit of a fudge around William the Conqueror and right sort of small boat crossing the Channel a long time ago. Happy hymns and nativities, but not too much on the history of state-sponsored religious persecution over the centuries. Nice history.

As I said “British” - it’s important to learn about the cultures of the countries that make up Britain

'I vow to thee, my country' would be a fabulous national anthem.

British or English culture?
Liz Trump agrees with you. She reckons British kids should be eating pork pies & black pudding.

Btw not that I want to upset the Lancashirians but the best black pudding in the world is from Clonakilty. 😉

Actually, it's very English to express shame at being English and then being annoyed when anyone, especially foreigners, take that at face value.

If it's not normal to express any pride in your background unless you're drunk, why would you expect anyone else to have any regard for it?

Well the way it’s being destroyed I can see their point.

id like schools to teach British culture over all the inclusivity stuff they do. Bring back the singing of hymns, British history properly taught rather than self flagation. I’d like to see nativities in all schools.

all school kids involved in local traditions, celebration of May Day - learning maypole.

Cookery programmes concentrating on traditional British food.

Kids programmes on British myths and legends. traditional stories in schools. There’s no need to make much of other cultures in schools and in the media

If the King let it be known they preferred a new anthem, then it just happens.

Unless this is yet another are where the "mysterious powers" we are required to keep a monarchy for turns out to be a load of bollocks too.

No, but on our street, with the people who insist on displaying them, I can see her point TBH.

It's the families who come out with the casual racism and sexism. The same ones who tell me I'm "so lucky" my husband works so hard (and miss the fact I also work) to give me and our child a good life. (Don't get me wrong, I am very lucky with my DH but that's not the point).

Somehow it's become very English to be ashamed of being English.

Isn't the great thing about customs that you can change them when you like ?

Not unilaterally you can't.

You may be able to opt out of current customs but you can't easily impose new ones.

I tend to think the same, although it's counterproductive. We shouldn't be letting the Far Right hijack the flag, and if more people use it it's less likely to happen Zi think.

Does she think the same when houses in other countries display their flag?

Well not really, they develop over time and constant use. Therefore if everyone was to sing Bas Baa black sheep every time the king appeared and at sporting events rather than GSTK then after a few decades there might be an argument Bas baa black sheep has become a de facto national anthem.

This is really what’s happened to a certain extent with Jerusalem which is so bloody annoying and Blake’s probably spinning in his grave.

For something which is only defined by custom, people seem to get inordinately worked up about the national anthem.

Isn't the great thing about customs that you can change them when you like ?

I was speaking to a friend the other day who said she hates seeing the St George's flag on people's houses because she automatically assumes they're racist or Reform types. They probably aren't, but sadly that's what's becoming the norm for people to feel I think.

Rereading this comment, wtf?! If who gets independence? Scotland or NI? Who exactly do you think owns NI & has the authority to 'give it to' anyone? Weird & ignorant attitude. Or just on the wind-up.

Ooooo Outside by George would be good. A total throwing off of English inhibitions and pomp!

I've campaigned for it to be careless whisper but no luck thus far

I think we should go for something like "Thumbs up, tickety boo" just to be different.