Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think he’s not doing anything wrong by stopping maintenance?

380 replies

GumdropsAndLollipops · 14/07/2024 19:28

My DB “Jack” has two kids with his ex “Anne”, DS8 and DD10.

Up until a year ago, Jack had the children 3 nights a week and Anne had them 4 nights a week. Jack is also a high earner and has always paid child maintenance to Anne above CM rate (as it should be).

Last year, Anne was due to have her second child with her DP and asked Jack to swap the schedule so he had their children 4 nights and she had them 3 nights instead. The court order was updated and means Jack has been the resident parent for the last year however he carried on paying maintenance to Anne at the same rate due to the fact she was on maternity leave (this was due to stop when she returned to work).

Fast forward to now and Jack recently cashed in an investment which has allowed him to pay off his mortgage and become financially secure. With this in mind, Jack has decided he would like to quit his job to spend more time with the kids and to just generally live a less busy and hectic life as without the commitment of a mortgage payment, he can live comfortably on freelance work while the kids are in school or at their mum’s.

Jack didn’t foresee any of this being a problem for Anne as the maintenance payments were due to stop anyway but she has hit the roof; saying he needs to continue the payments as not doing so would put her household into financial hardship.

Jack has it made clear that he will not be requesting any maintenance from her and that he will carry on paying for everything as before (clothes, uniform, trips, hobbies, sports etc) and has offered to have their children more, do pick ups / drop off on her days, cover all sickness absences as he won’t have a work schedule but all hell has broken loose.

As per my title, I don’t think Jack is wrong (but I’m biased as I don’t like Anne) so I thought I’d ask here in case there’s something I’m missing or have not thought about.

So, is Jack being unreasonable to quit his job and stop the voluntary maintenance payments?

OP posts:
MischkasMum · 21/07/2024 11:20

Unreasonable? I don't think so. SHE is on maternity leave, having a child with another partner, yet JACK kept on paying maintenance? Which means he's effectively paying for her new child? That's absolutely MENTAL!

You've also stated that Jack will still pay for what looks like EVERYTHING for the children:

'Jack has it made clear that he will not be requesting any maintenance from her and that he will carry on paying for everything as before (clothes, uniform, trips, hobbies, sports etc) and has offered to have their children more, do pick ups / drop off on her days, cover all sickness absences as he won’t have a work schedule but all hell has broken loose'

Yet that's still not good enough for this Anne person? Someone needs to take this woman aside and have a few well-chosen words with her. In effect, she actually owes money since Jack has been the RP but still paying HER for the extra night.

I actually think Jack is a bit of a saint putting up with his ex and her demands. She's with another partner, having children with him but HE is basically funding their lifestyle? Not on your life!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/07/2024 11:07

I think a key point here is that she asked him to have the DCs 4 days a week - unlike too many fathers who try to wangle this so they can avoid paying, then palm off the kids for their mum or whoever to look after

Add on the fact he's already been paying far more than he was obliged to, that the mum's made a free choice to take on the financial responsibility of more DCs and that the end of the payments had been fully flagged up, and yes - she's being completely unreasonable

Donsyb · 21/07/2024 10:51

Nepmarthiturn · 21/07/2024 03:29

That isn'f remotely the same. 🤣

It is in that his ex is using the maintenance to fund their lifestyle, rather than pay for the children!

Isthisreasonable · 21/07/2024 10:33

StormingNorman · 15/07/2024 10:44

Because life obviously isn’t going great for her. I can have sympathy for her without thinking she’s right.

How is her life not going great?

  • She has a job to return to after mat leave
  • Exdh who has always paid more than he was required to
  • Exdh who has willingly stepped up to facilitate her prioritising her new kids
  • new dp to share the load both financially and running the home (if he isn't pulling his weight she has made her fertility decisions knowing that given this is her 2nd with dp)

Any problems she thinks she has are entirely of her own making

obsessedwithfreshbread · 21/07/2024 10:26

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:07

You are definitely being extremely unreasonable. Picture this: you have an agreement with your ex either by court order or by consent. You arrange your mortgage, and budget on the basis of that agreed sum coming in. Then suddlenly ex decides to bale out of the agreement and leaves you high and dry. Then you have to suddenly have to find the shortfall to pay your mortgage. Where? How?
An agreement is an agreement and ought to be honoured. BTW this is between Jack and his ex wife. You are a girlfriend and naturally don’t like his ex wife (it’s a story as old as the hills). How would you feel if you were treated that way?

How to tell everyone you didn't read the OP properly just found an (unfounded) excuse to be bitter about 2nd wives 😂

Her brother is absolutely not unreasonable, she has reduced her time with the DC and made him the RP why on earth would he fund her 2nd family whilst doing the majority of parenting? She's lucky he isn't requesting CM.
She made her bed....

SamBrown2019 · 21/07/2024 09:21

Just be careful about he word ‘agreed’…my ex sent me a legal letter saying ‘we’d agreed’….what he meant was ‘he told me’…economic abuse in marriage doesn’t stop after divorce. Not saying this is what’s happening, but you’re probably too close to the issue to be objective.

WasThatACorner · 21/07/2024 08:09

HowardTJMoon · 14/07/2024 22:04

I know full well that’s not how CMS works but morally I think it’s a bit repugnant for a high earner who is in a position to take early retirement and pay off his mortgage (so pretty damn rich) to stop paying for his kids half the week.

He is already paying for his kids 4 days a week. Are you suggesting that he has a moral obligation to pay for his children 7 days a week? Does their mother not have any moral obligation to pay anything?

To be fair, we all have a moral obligation to ensure that our children are provided for 7 days a week. That's a non-negotiable part of being a parent. Jack had the children 4 nights, buys uniforms, hobbies, trips etc. He is meeting his obligations.

After parents split, each will make their own choices and their standard of living may not align anymore. This seems to have been the case with Jack and Anne. The children now have 2 homes with different income levels, that isn't in any way damaging to the children unless one household is in poverty.

If we look at it from the other side, imagine an exH insisting that mum live in a house in a 'better' area, 'better' car etc in order that their lifestyles match for the children. People have different priorities, which may have contributed to the split in the first place. Or an exH insisting that mum doesn't take the children on fancy holidays because he can't.

They are 2 separate families now with children that overlap, they make choices independently.

NotAgainWilson · 21/07/2024 07:51

In black and white according to child maintenance rules:

-Jack is the resident parent, he is entitled to receive child maintenance.

-Anne is not, she is expected to pay child maintenance.

-Anne’s amount to pay would be calculated according to the nights they spend with Jack (4 nights = 11.43% of her salary after taxes but this may be less or more depending on how they split school holidays)

-Anne is entitled to a small discount on the amount she has to pay as she has other children living with her full time (whether they are hers or not).

Jack was generous paying over what he was required to pay, Jack is still generous not expecting her to pay him child maintenance.

The tricky point is, did Jack cash in those investments BEFORE the residence order was changed recently in his favour? If so, Jack may be owing Anne £1,000s as the income from those investments will be considered as part of the CM calculation. If not, though for Anne but she gets nothing.

P4ULA · 21/07/2024 05:03

She is using the money to pay for her lifestyle.

Nepmarthiturn · 21/07/2024 03:29

Donsyb · 15/07/2024 18:07

This happened to friends of mine. When they had their children he told his ex he would have to pay her less (he was paying well over what he’d be legally required to pay). She hit the roof because his maintenance was basically subsidising her life with her new DP, and they had been working part time but would now have to go full time 🙄

That isn'f remotely the same. 🤣

HaveAWordWithYerselfWouldYa · 20/07/2024 23:42

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:57

Doesn’t matter, it’s still between Jack and his wife. Telling it like it is: if there’s an agreement and it’s not being honoured it is the DC who will suffer. That has nothing to do with my marital status. I told my son the same when he said he was going to renege on the agreement he had with his ex-wife. I didn’t particularly like her, but she didn’t deserve to be treated like that.

Sadly though @Coco1379 you aren't "telling it like it is" - you are "telling it like you think it is" but have things wrong.

Best if you go back and read the OP's posts before you make any further mistakes

Trillie · 20/07/2024 21:37

Yeah? I couldn’t be bothered to work out all the silly acronyms. None of her business then, is it really?

Grammarnut · 20/07/2024 21:36

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:07

You are definitely being extremely unreasonable. Picture this: you have an agreement with your ex either by court order or by consent. You arrange your mortgage, and budget on the basis of that agreed sum coming in. Then suddlenly ex decides to bale out of the agreement and leaves you high and dry. Then you have to suddenly have to find the shortfall to pay your mortgage. Where? How?
An agreement is an agreement and ought to be honoured. BTW this is between Jack and his ex wife. You are a girlfriend and naturally don’t like his ex wife (it’s a story as old as the hills). How would you feel if you were treated that way?

Maintenance payments for children in 50/50 custody situations are not mandatory and one should not arrange one's finances on what is a time limited payment, if the custody is not 50/50. I speak from experience here.

Simonjt · 20/07/2024 21:35

Trillie · 20/07/2024 21:30

Second wife syndrome. I’d make sure he’s generous to her in your own interests, not impossible that could be you in a few years.

So OPs brother should also be paying to raise his sisters children?

MaggieHM · 20/07/2024 21:33

Trillie · 20/07/2024 21:30

Second wife syndrome. I’d make sure he’s generous to her in your own interests, not impossible that could be you in a few years.

She's his sister not a girlfriend or a wnd wife

Trillie · 20/07/2024 21:30

Second wife syndrome. I’d make sure he’s generous to her in your own interests, not impossible that could be you in a few years.

InterIgnis · 20/07/2024 20:59

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:57

Doesn’t matter, it’s still between Jack and his wife. Telling it like it is: if there’s an agreement and it’s not being honoured it is the DC who will suffer. That has nothing to do with my marital status. I told my son the same when he said he was going to renege on the agreement he had with his ex-wife. I didn’t particularly like her, but she didn’t deserve to be treated like that.

He made her aware in advance that the child maintenance he was paying would stop at the end of her maternity leave. The children ‘will suffer’ because she doesn’t want to work to provide for them. Instead, she has two more children whilst under the delusion that her ex, the actual resident parent, was responsible for providing for her.

He is supporting his children, that’s all he needs to do. He isn’t responsible for propping up her household.

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:57

JenniferBooth · 20/07/2024 20:30

Shes his sister not his girlfriend You obvs didnt read it properly in your eagerness as a co founder of the first wives club

Doesn’t matter, it’s still between Jack and his wife. Telling it like it is: if there’s an agreement and it’s not being honoured it is the DC who will suffer. That has nothing to do with my marital status. I told my son the same when he said he was going to renege on the agreement he had with his ex-wife. I didn’t particularly like her, but she didn’t deserve to be treated like that.

JenniferBooth · 20/07/2024 20:30

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:07

You are definitely being extremely unreasonable. Picture this: you have an agreement with your ex either by court order or by consent. You arrange your mortgage, and budget on the basis of that agreed sum coming in. Then suddlenly ex decides to bale out of the agreement and leaves you high and dry. Then you have to suddenly have to find the shortfall to pay your mortgage. Where? How?
An agreement is an agreement and ought to be honoured. BTW this is between Jack and his ex wife. You are a girlfriend and naturally don’t like his ex wife (it’s a story as old as the hills). How would you feel if you were treated that way?

Shes his sister not his girlfriend You obvs didnt read it properly in your eagerness as a co founder of the first wives club

Simonjt · 20/07/2024 20:18

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:07

You are definitely being extremely unreasonable. Picture this: you have an agreement with your ex either by court order or by consent. You arrange your mortgage, and budget on the basis of that agreed sum coming in. Then suddlenly ex decides to bale out of the agreement and leaves you high and dry. Then you have to suddenly have to find the shortfall to pay your mortgage. Where? How?
An agreement is an agreement and ought to be honoured. BTW this is between Jack and his ex wife. You are a girlfriend and naturally don’t like his ex wife (it’s a story as old as the hills). How would you feel if you were treated that way?

I’m fairly certain the OP isn’t dating her own brother.

No one has bailed, it was agreed the maintenance to the NRP would stop when maternity leave ended and that the NRP wouldn’t be paying maintenance despite them having an obligation to do so. The NRP and her new partner could pay the mortgage by working.

Itsmecathy87 · 20/07/2024 20:16

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:07

You are definitely being extremely unreasonable. Picture this: you have an agreement with your ex either by court order or by consent. You arrange your mortgage, and budget on the basis of that agreed sum coming in. Then suddlenly ex decides to bale out of the agreement and leaves you high and dry. Then you have to suddenly have to find the shortfall to pay your mortgage. Where? How?
An agreement is an agreement and ought to be honoured. BTW this is between Jack and his ex wife. You are a girlfriend and naturally don’t like his ex wife (it’s a story as old as the hills). How would you feel if you were treated that way?

I think Jack is her brother, not boyfriend

Itsmecathy87 · 20/07/2024 20:13

In short, Anne is a greedy cow. Your brother shouldn't have continued paying her CM when he started having kids more.
Is he sure both kids are really his?

Coco1379 · 20/07/2024 20:07

You are definitely being extremely unreasonable. Picture this: you have an agreement with your ex either by court order or by consent. You arrange your mortgage, and budget on the basis of that agreed sum coming in. Then suddlenly ex decides to bale out of the agreement and leaves you high and dry. Then you have to suddenly have to find the shortfall to pay your mortgage. Where? How?
An agreement is an agreement and ought to be honoured. BTW this is between Jack and his ex wife. You are a girlfriend and naturally don’t like his ex wife (it’s a story as old as the hills). How would you feel if you were treated that way?

SamBrown2019 · 20/07/2024 17:58

If the children are still financially dependent and her circumstances haven’t changed then it seems he’s punishing her but harming the kids.

If it’s voluntary and custody equal, that’s typically a high earning individual. CMS governs parents with income less than £156k pa. There is an expectation parents earning more than that will contribute, even in 50:50 agreements if there is a big disparity of earnings between the parents, this is so the child can have a similar lifestyle at both home.

Grammarnut · 17/07/2024 10:08

FOXYMORON1707 · 17/07/2024 00:17

I find this highly emotive as a Mum who receives no maintenance or little bits here and there. Tho think you are correct in this one and the is still contributing just not in a form of cash. Not sure how it works if they both have kids kinda 50/50 or in terms of of he had capital in the bank would that count. He is paying for kids not to maintain her household and she wants him to have them equally or more and still pay. I would speak to the CSA this women sounds unreasonable.

If custody is 50/50 no-one pays maintenance. The ex DP is not expected to fund the household of their former spouse and their new DP, only to maintain their DCs. Whoever Anne is she is pushing it. She is not entitled to have her household maintained by her ex-DH. His contribution is now rather more than half of the care of their mutual DCs.

Swipe left for the next trending thread