Why didn't I realise how awful teenager years were going to be

We have 3 who are now 20s plus, DSD, DSS and DD. The girls were awful, DSD was horrible to everyone especially her own mum and her Dad, I kept out her way as much as I could, she ended up living with us for last 3 years of her teens as her Mum couldn’t take any more. DSD was fine, not much conversation but not difficult. Youngest DD was better than DSD and her moods were more obviously connected to unhappiness and anxiety related to friendship groups, social media etc. We still have flare ups with both girls, out of nowhere, and its related to periods of unhappiness so its worth establishing what else is going on with DD2, you are likely bearing the brunt of other issues.

Being disrespectful and rude is pretty normal with Anorexia. We got told by professionals it’s the ED and malnourished brain that are talking. My dd physically lashed out, threw plates of food over the wall, ran away, was awful in meetings to me( because I was challenging the ED) etc. Interestingly when treatment style was changed and she was given more control things improved a lot.

I was a desperately unhappy and, at times, mean teenage girl. I had a lot going on and so did my mum and it was a perfect storm.

I was being bullied at school, was hanging around with people who weren't always good for me, was desperately lonely and looking for validation in a number of questionable sources. I hated my body - at times I thought I should have been a boy as my boobs were tiny and I hated how I looked. I had loads of stretchmarks from growth spurts and it made my school life hell during sports and swimming as kids are so cruel. My dad had had a new baby when I was 12 and I found that really hard and my mum hit her 40s when i was in my late teens and she was trying to date and was in my mind 'behaving like a teenager' and going out all the time. I didn't feel she was behaving like a 'mum' anymore.

My mum struggled with consistency - rules were arbitrary, I just wanted structure. I wanted meals at reliable times, I wanted rules and boundaries (even though I would have argued against them) - I desperately needed them. I wanted someone to tell me to turn my TV off, to put my phone down, to not go out, to do my homework. Your teenage brain is so underdeveloped that expecting them to be able to be little adults is pointless in many ways.

I would have really respected being consulted on rules and boundaries - e.g. to sit down and say 'what time do you think is acceptable to put your phone away? Why? how will we decide on this? How will we know it's working?' to collaborate with me and listen to me. I remember feeling like a total nuisance like my mum wanted to check out of parenting because I was 'grown' but I needed her now more than ever. I didn't feel she liked me very much and i felt like a bit of an inconvenience.

I also think that hormones affect a lot of teenage girls in a really really extreme way. I had the worst periods when i was a teen and of course I knew no different but I think if I'd sorted out my hormone levels I wouldn't have felt quite so depressed, upset and out of control in my own body as I did. Instead I got given antidepressants which were not the solution I needed.

I didn't get an eating disorder but I did self-harm. It only stopped when I had therapy consistently over time. I needed to learn to like myself independent of others validation and that took a long time. I was a typical 'over achieving, perfect' kid pre-teen years and god it was exhausting trying to keep up with that as I became a teen. I just didn't feel like I could stand up against anyone's expectations of me and I was so so tired from trying.

This is spectacularly unhelpful. The whole point of the op is so she can express her frustration and upset about her teen’s behaviour.
of course not all teens are awful but many of them really really are.
lucky you for not having to deal with it.

Not all teenagers are horrible. My three were/are lovely funny people. We’ve had issues with them, for sure, including eating disorder but they have never been disrespectful or rude.
It upsets me when people make blanket statements about teenagers.

Neither. Set boundaries by all means, but don't call her an arsehole. I certainly wouldn't be pussyfooting around her. Ask her if she's ok? You think she's depressed and restricting food - get her into counselling asap!! She is communicating a struggle and you are taking it personally.

I just had to comment on this and say I was that horrible teenage daughter. I feel horrendously guilty for it now - so rest assured OP that in a decade’s time it’s likely your daughter will too. I’m trying to think of anything my mum could have done to help, or to make me less angry at her all the time. I can remember the feeling so viscerally - I just found her so cold. Looking back, I’m certain she never took HRT and she was slap bang in the beginnings of menopause at this time which I really do think had an impact. She’d literally change her mind from encouraging me to do something one minute, to telling me off for doing it the next. So I think consistency is helpful.
Secondly, it sounds like your DD may be struggling with MH at the moment. I had horrific exam stress and constantly burst into tears thinking I wasn’t good enough. As an adult I’m horrified at how this wasn’t addressed as an underlying self esteem issue, or anxiety, or depression. My mum was desperately worried but it manifested as anger. I’d be there in full-on tears and she’d basically tut or just ignore it. So I think - whilst your DD will probably refuse to talk about it or get angry with you - please try and explain that you just want her to be happy and look to get her counselling of some sort. I think a lot of teenagers are quite desperately unhappy (I know I was, and it should’ve been pretty obvious to those around me)
All this to say that my mum did the best she could with what she had at the time, in really difficult circumstances cos I was horrible. Your DD will ultimately realise this too.

I work in a CAMHS service and I think it will be very helpful once you get it. Lots of different interventions on offer and they will try to find what works for you an your DD.
Given that your other DD has ASD could this also be the case for this one. It is often missed in the other child if it presents differently, just got me thinking what you said about foods and timings.

You might have a google of NVR parenting program. It puts you back n control as a parent but also gives strategies for de escalation and parental presence. It also talks about doing acts of kindness such as leaving a chocolate or a note on their pillow, this interrupts the downward spiral of they do something bad, you tell them off / punish and then they feel bad and lash out again.
The parents we teach it to have found it really helpful.
you sound lovely and your daughter knows deep down that you love her but she may not love herself much at the moment and this may be why she is hitting out.

you will get through this and come out the other side

My 16 yo dd with anorexia is being treated as if she has PDA. She says the most awful things, which I just have to ignore and I agree, it’s anxiety, unmet need and absolutely how she’s feeling herself.

@sassyclassyandsmartassy some kids will simply not stick around to hear what you have to say - that’s a big part of the problem.

Have you sat down and taken the time to try to talk to her? Sit there, not necessarily hugging, but just sit with her and saying ‘I know you have a lot going on at the moment and that you probably have a lot of feelings, when you are ready I would really like to listen’. Then if she comes to you to talk you do just listen, don’t have an opinion unless she asks for one. Don’t try and solve something unless she asks you to.

if that doesn’t work the line you need is;

’I am sure you didn’t mean to speak to me quite so disrespectfully then, let’s pause this conversation for now and when you are in the right place to be more respectful come and find me’. Remove yourself.

When she comes back and is polite then you offer help.

Google Pathological Demand Avoidance and see if it fits.

My kid is much younger, but she says stuff to me that people would consider awful but I hear it as anxiety and unmet need.

If she started telling me she hates me (or whatever - probably worse) I'd start looking out for things that might be wrong - has something upset her, is she struggling with a sensory thing? How is she feeling in her body?

Try not to take it personally, even though I'm sure what she says is deeply personal and hurtful. Imagine she's feeling what she's making you feel and she doesn't understand why and she doesn't know how to talk about it.

My take on it is that I doubt it's deliberate or conscious. Even though it probably feels like it is at times.

@RazzleDazzleEm or if you mean "the year I didn’t eat" it was £7.99 and worth every penny too

I bought it on amazon on my kindle app for £8.49.

Sometimes a drive is helpful but when my daughter is at her worst there’s no way I could even get her in the car.
most of the time if I do manage to give her a lift she will have her airpods in or have the music up loud in the car.
on occasion if something has displeased her in the car she has got out, once in the middle of the road.
the ‘refusal’ dynamic-school, sports, days out, food, essential appointments etc. is fucking hard.

initiating a difficult conversation while driving isn’t a panacea/magic bullet, or even a safe idea for some.

Sadly, not all DC and families ‘come through it’.

Wait til you are in the car on a journey somewhere and have the conversation that needs to happen. No direct eye contact and nowhere to run to. Explain how her behaviour makes you feel. Teenagers carry a lot of baggage they are reluctant to share with parents as they navigate the wider world and their peers. Be sure she fully understands the impact her behaviour is having on you both. The setting the boundaries rule is important if you are going to move forward- save that for a second ‘conversation’ after she has had time to reflect. Remain calm. Easier said than done but you will come through it at some point. Good luck. ( I worked for 20 years with school refusers and excluded kids as well as my own four )

This is a really interesting thread. Sorry OP I haven’t read all the posts-will have a go later. But a lot resonates with me. My DD is (not diagnosed) ND and had terrible food phobia as a toddler that drove me mad and made her ill. Also had a horrible period of self harming as a young child around 3-7yrs old. It does sound like your DD has some MH stuff here. So maybe OCD and maybe some ND stuff as well as hormonal stuff making it worse? Possibly depression and anxiety too which can be medicated/treated in adolescence. The not responding to friends messages for weeks really sounds like anxiety and depression. How are her periods? Those could be causing her problems. Definitely will help trying to get to the bottom of those issues..also I absolutely recommend HRT for you if you’re not already doing that-absolutely world of difference for you to be able to cope and think more clearly. For us I just had enough of what I perceived as hatred and just told her and I did cry and rage in front of her fairly often. She was always shocked and I think surprised I was upset. She seemed to realise something and did adjust her behaviour. She still looks at me as though I’m an idiot and I do get sworn at if I try and talk to her when she doesn’t want to. I don’t walk on egg shells around her but I do respect her privacy and I respect she needs alone time too. I try and help her with things like organising herself when she feels overwhelmed. Echo what someone said about sport. Sports are a lifesaver for both mine. In fact sports stop my DD from self harming. I always offer both my kids choices of what food they like. I’m not worried about exactly what kind of food they eat but don’t let them miss meals. There is a great book about this-I’ll link if I find later. I want them to eat as healthy as possible but eating all meals whatever they are is a priority over a particular choice I might want. If that means different meals for all so be it. My DD does not like to be touched or looked at and on occasion I’ll sit next to her or touch her hair briefly and tell her how great she is. She looks at me like an alien but sometimes says thanks. You’ve just got to remember how amazing they are and remember how much you love them and show that to them. Don’t need to take bad behaviour though. Show them when they hurt you. Don’t hide your sadness. Don’t go to the car to cry. Cry right in front of her. That’s reality. It’s hard to show our kids we are vulnerable but if we don’t they don’t know we are. Anyway sorry for the ramble. And different people respond to different things so this just a bit of my story. Hope it gets better for you both. And don’t give up on your relationship!

@SpiritOfEcstasy your first post was indeed smug & unhelpful.

i feel for you. My own daughter was a hormonal temperamental nightmare with loads of anxiety from 12 until 18 when she left home to go to university. She now appreciates how good she had it. I was firm. Let her know when she had crossed the line. I did offer the choice of going to live with her grandad on more than one occasion. She also had the choice to cook her own meals if she didn’t like what I did. That was pretty effective. She is now lovely - on the whole.
my step daughter was a living horror. You name it she did it. I was the wicked step mum. She hates me. Now at 21. She has said I was awful to you. I’m sorry. I’m not a nightmare now. I felt safe as you would never give in to me (hee mum did)

don’t give up op. These years pass. They are awful going through them but they pass too quickly

Quite.
Having clean clothes is not a reward for being 'good', it's a normal thing you do when you choose to have children.

I also like to express myself with affect but consent matters. For me is the violation of boundaries and assumption that because she’s my mother anything goes. If I say’please don’t touch me’ 5 mins later she’ll touch me again instead of respecting it. When I was younger instead of saying anything I’d move away and she’d just moved closer and do it again. So over time I came to hate it. It’s the lack of respect for me.

Less of the animal slurs 🙄

I’m in the lucky camp for sure …….it didn’t happen by accident! But I do believe that parenting plays a part. Sorry OP it just does. I have DDs 14 & 16 and I’m a single parent. They are respectful, helpful and genuinely nice people but they need strong boundaries. I’m not here to be their bestie. I’m here to make sure that they are guided into being decent human beings that can function in the world when I’m not the captain of the ship. I find that comes from modelling good behaviour, putting in place consequences if boundaries/rules are not adhered to and always respecting them and their feelings as individuals. I’ve attended three parenting courses to date …::

Pure smuggary.

ND differs- a lot!

As someone who had disordered eating I was horrid as a teenager - partly if she's restricting there's stuff going on but also some of t will be she's permantwky hungry and stressed around food it will affect her mood. Even though I've largely recovered if my eating disorder flares up even now I know I become worse mood and unpleasant. It sounds like if she's refusing a private counselling she's in the denial phase. I wotkd access support for yourself B-EAT Iis a national charity and offer support gor families. That will give you support and coping mechanisms. It's great despite everything you are trying to support her despite everything. Where I live we have a carers course for families of people with Ed called walking on eggshells which sums it up ! Good luck x