How to stop DD embarrassing me?

My now grown up child is probably ND, we never managed to get to the top of that waiting list as they have other health problems which took priority.
I hit back twice I'm not proud of it, but it was a reflex reaction when I was at the end of my tether and exhausted. The second time my child hit back twice as hard, actually bruised my face. I backed off, because where to you go from there - hit back again, harder? Bruise your child? Would you do that?
We backed off with punishments, as all that happened was the behaviour spiralled, they didn't see any point in trying, as at some point they wouldn't cope and it would result in punishment.

We started praising small things and worked hard to avoid triggers - giving transition warnings, didn't take them round the supermarket, made sure they had enough downtime and decompression time. Things have been better for a while, but we went through a phase of self harm and turning their frustration on themselves.

Verucca Salt is the spoilt child in Charlie and the chocolate factory book.

I think it's really positive you have asked on here for help. She is only 8, you can still turn things around.

I would read up on behaviour and child psychology so you have techniques to stick to when she is acting out against you.

You need to have your partner and all other involved adults on board too, to present a united front.

Clear rules and boundaries and consequences. And positive reinforcement for complying and small signs of compassion.

This forum is crazy. The mother of the child is telling people she is not ND and recognises that there may be behavioural elements caused by spoiling her, yet posters still insist she needs an assessment.

Has the level of parenting in this country got so bad that every child needs an assessment and a diagnosis so the parent can sit back and say “see, it wasn’t me and my lack of discipline, they have a problem that’s not my fault”

Nobody is trying to diagnose your daughter OP. People were just pointing out that, actually, they wouldn't rule out ND as what you have described sounds like she could be. We can only go on the information you've given us, which would point towards there being a possibility (nobody here has said she IS ND, just that she could be). You're right, we don't know your daughter, we're just pointing out that you may have misunderstood ND by automatically ruling it out.

You ask what benefit a 'label' would have. Well, it would help her to understand herself better and for others to understand her. It would help you to learn strategies to deal with meltdowns and pre-empt them to reduce the risk. It will hopefully make life a little bit easier, if she is ND, to have a recognised diagnosis.

Yes, she could indeed just be a brat. In my experience though, children who are just 'spoilt brats' are less likely to mask in different situations. That's their personality and they're generally like that everywhere. People often have this idea that Autism can't be controlled so therefore children who mask can't actually be autistic but autism presents in so many different ways. Children with high-functioning autism often sense they are different. They desperately want to please in school, and spend all day desperately trying to follow the social norms they don't truly understand, putting on an act for fear of rejection if people at school see the real them. They are choosy over who sees their meltdowns and their quirks. They relax at home, and that's when the meltdowns flow as they finally release the stress of the day. Look up the 'coke-bottle effect'.

If you don't feel this fits your daughter fair enough, you do know her best. People aren't trying to suggest you don't know her, or diagnose her based on small snippets of information. People are just trying to help you to help her by pointing out that it could be a possibility. You didn't say earlier that you had researched ND, you just appeared to dismiss it. All people are doing is pointing out that it's worth looking into if you hasn't done so already. Ultimately people's suggestions of ND is to try and help you both, if it is a possibility she is.

Sometimes people hear what they want to hear you have written that she is not ND because she is fine at school.

This is not saying that she is not ND it is just saying they don't have an issue with her.

Schools are not doctors (that said GPs are pretty useless as well on this subject, I digress)

Look up masking, look up why ND children are fine at school only to melt down away from it.

My dd was like this. I didn't see it as embarrassing me but more she could let out her feelings with me. I always punished the hitting (screen ban usually). When she hit 15-17, Jesus I almost lost my sanity as she was so verbally abusive and violent (smashed up her room).

There were signs of ND and she had ed-psych assessment, but there was nothing definitive.

Now? She's a well-adjusted, happy and thriving adult with friends and partner. We have a wonderful relationship and she has apologised for her previous behaviour.

My advice (my family also thought she was spoilt) is to continue to punish the behaviour but also recognise she will get overwhelmed, so plan for it. Acknowledge her feelings "now, you probably don't want to go but we are" and then talk about a positive (like it's her favourite for tea).

Also, she is not doing this to embarrass you but showing you how she feels. She needs help to regulate, so talk to her about it.

Fair enough if you feel sure.

Then she sounds like a deeply unpleasant brat as a result of your soft parenting.

She will get a lot worse and the teen years will be hell as she grows more out of control.

You allowing her to hurt her sibling is dreadful.
Poor child.
It should be scorched earth consequences for hurting a sibling.
You are failing the both badly.

You need to find the energy and effort to do better.
She wouldn't be going on any more play dates or out shopping until she demonstrated better behaviour.

You didn't mention getting it looked into, you just dismissed it because she copes well at school. So what have you actually done in order to rule out ND?

Coping strategies for ND behaviour might still be useful even if your daughter isn't ND. It might be worthwhile to read through some of the comments again and see if any of them could be helpful.

Fair enough then. She's a brat, and you've made her like that by enabling her behaviour. She's innately badly behaved, but keep going with the strategies you're trying and which clearly don't work for her or for you. I'm not sure what you're expecting from your post, when you clearly believe she's just a badly behaved child. Children don't behave like this unless there's something else going on - either bad/ inconsistent parenting, high, uncontrolled levels of anxiety or a significant or traumatic life event that changes previously good behaviour. Kids aren't just born brats.

Why are you so defensive? And what harm is there in getting her screened?

Being diagnosed if she were ND can help a lot. You would be able to learn specific strategies that would be more effective. You could get referrals that could also help with her behaviour. And as she gets older she may start to struggle with school and you could get help there too.

Noone is diagnosing her. We just see patterns of behaviour that indicate possible ND.

She's quite controlling, too? What sort of things where she doesn't get her way? Are things a constant battle of wills and does she frequently refuse to do as she's told, despite having rewards and consequences applied to her behaviour? If you do all the usual parenting strategies and behaviour management, consistently, then something else is likely going on with her.

Verruca Salt.

😬 what are you doing to undo the damage of being ‘spoilt’?

My dd is a model pupil at school. Yesterday she told me she fucking hates me when it was time for us to leave an event. She's hit me twice in two days for no apparent reason, too. She is ND and struggles with transitions. Her anxiety is currently through the roof as it's almost the end of term and there's virtually no usual routine/ structure at school - it's all sports days, leavers production, festivals etc. She leaves infants next week and starts Juniors in September. We are in for a very rough ride after a wonderfully settled Year 2.

Does your dd struggle with other transitions, too? You say she has regular meltdowns at home.

My dd was 15 before I realised what was going on.
Excellent student, lots of friends, great athlete, happy lovely well loved girl.
Autistic.
She did a lot of pacing listening to music since Covid and liked her down time and found she had a low social battery....as in would be tired after socialising.
I'm the same so didn't think it unusual.
But when I started speaking to her after reading up on ASD in girls, she said she sometimes mildly suffered with difficulties with sarcasm and social cues.
She has a great group of friends and is sought out by them and treated well by them.

OP, hurting her sibling is a total no no.
Remove her iPad and let her know why.

I would be doing some reading yourself you might be very surprised, I was.
It will give you a starting point to talk to her about how she feels.
Then you can start researching strategies to help her.

But no iPad when she lays a hand on her brother.
Have zero tolerance for this.

She’s walking all over you FFS.

“She knows she can get away with it.”
“Family say she is really spoilt.”
“She recently got an iPad, shall I take it away?”

Is this post serious?!

I agree with those saying you should have left the supermarket as soon as she started taking over the trolley.

You should have walked away from the park too.

Do not plead or wheedle, or try to mitigate situations she causes (for instance, steering the trolley away from obstacles).

Take strong action. Make it clear you are willing to shut down situations and that you will not engage with her at all when she steps out of line. She needs to be shown that she is not in charge.

Haven't read all the posts.
I wouldn't focus on the past. Looking forward, if you're having another playdate, before you leave in the morning, sit down and set out expectations of behaviour. Explain that you will give time warnings, what you expect to happen and what the consequences will be if she doesn't follow them politely. Ask her if she can explain it all back to you.
The same for shopping trips. Expected behaviour and consequences for falling short. Lay it all out before you go. Then if your daughter does have a tantrum or play up, you can calmly explain that you have already talked about what is acceptable and if they continue to behave this way they will lose XYZ.

She is too old for that sort of behaviour. Wanting to push the trolley is a 3 year old thing. Shouting at you and punching you when frustrated are also the kind of behaviours you would expect from a much younger child.

The behaviour sounds like extreme immaturity. Or possibly some form of neurodiversity. Don't rule this out. Either way, something is amiss.

You need to stop focusing on the response of third parties here. Your child's emotional disregulation is a serious problem, and you need to get over yourself and tackle it.

If I were you, my first port of call would be an assessment for neurodiversity. But I would also look at dynamics in the wider family and in DD's life -
Does your husband/ partner respect you and show you love and affection in the home? Is DD a "daddy's girl"?
Is DD expected to do chores around the house and answer to you for her performance?
Does DD have interests outside of home and school that she participates in - a sport or Guides or any other team activity?
Why is she bringing snacks to share in school?

What is going on in school?
Does she have friends?

I would talk to the school about the (unusual) issues you are dealing with and ask if there are resources the school could point you to.

ASD people can often mask very well, particularly girls. I have an ASD son you will shortly qualify as a doctor so he can absolutely mask. He gets high marks for patient interaction and people find him very charming. It's not that ASD people don't have feelings like compassion - as my husband tells me the difficulty is that they have problems working out what other people are feeling.

My son was "very challenging" when younger. I did find it was really important to praise him for things - once at my wit's end I said he was very good at finding the shortest supermarket queue. The psychologist we saw said I should find 3 nice things to say to him every day. I suppose you should adopt the same thing with your son aa well as your daughter so he doesn't feel left out. I always tried to base my comments on things they'd done rather than how clever they were or how good they looked or whatever.

So because your child is violent, all autistic children are? See how your logic works?