How to stop DD embarrassing me?

But one persons tantrum is another’s meltdown. My friend regularly calls her daughters obvious temper tantrums a meltdown.

I have ASD, so believe me I know what a meltdown is. My meltdowns have always involved silence and withdrawal. Someone else’s might look like a tantrum. See the problem we have here?

They don’t actually. They have tantrums. Quite different.

But NT children also have meltdowns when they don’t get their own way. Thats kind of the point- they aren’t getting what they want and they want to let people know how they feel about that. Thats not something only seen in ND children.

Well have you looked into it? You haven't actually said. Has she had an assessment? That's a simple yes or no. My guess is she hasn't because you would have just said so in your first post if she had been assessed and found not to be.

Yep. Usual methods don't work with ND children because their brains work differently and they struggle to understand what are appropriate ways to react when they can't get their way, leading to meltdowns because they can't articulate themselves.

Any more clues going straight over your head there?

I absolutely did not say that 🤣🤣. I'm also autistic and have never been violent. All autistic children and adults are different. I was saying this little girl could be ND and it's worth taking a closer look because I'd had a similar experience and there are effective ways to help with this behaviour that will be much better for the whole family than taking away an ipad. You were being dismissive and rude because your experience of an autistic child hasn't been the same and therefore it was basically ridiculous to suggest another child who has hit out might be autistic. As I said, you can roll your eyes and misunderstand (purposely or not) all you like, but there are many of us that have been there and would love to stop just one family going through the same. Whether people choose to look into it or not is up to them, but we're all allowed to talk about our experiences, not just you 😬. Anyway, as OP doesn't want to look at it, that's fine (despite all the reasons being things we thought at one point) so I'll leave you all to discuss punishment etc.

One point on punishment and consequence though would be to ask a couple of questions first. 1. Does your child know the behaviour is unacceptable? 2. Do they feel bad about the behaviour? If both answers are yes, I'd ask what you want to achieve.

Yep.

There's no harm in assessing and at the very least. Some of the strategies we use for our kids to avoid them getting overwhelmed and having meltdowns might actually be worth trying anyway.

For whatever reason she is not as emotionally developed as you would expect from an 8 year old. Whether that is due to environmental factors (parenting, family dynamics etc) or just how she is. Rather than focusing on punishment because she should be able to, think about helping her to learn the skills she needs. It's a shift in your thinking and will help her too. You wouldn't punish a child because they struggled with maths or reading because they can't help it, why can't we think the same about emotional development? Lots of good tips already on how to hel0 her cope with control and transitions.

This child does not have a diagnosis, nor is she under investigation for one. Most children are neurotypical.

Counselling?

I haven't read the whole thread but I have read all your posts. One thing really stood out to me- her behaviour isn't about you. It isn't about embarrassing you. Her behaviour is about her.

Behaviour is communication, something about specific situations isn't working and she's developed a strategy to deal with it that's unhelpful for all of you.

So- not about you. Think about what's going on for her. I promise she isn't lying awake at night thinking up ways to embarrass you!

Secondly- all children respond individually to situations whether NT or ND. So you need to find strategies that work for you and her, regardless of what label the strategies carry.

Some ideas-
talk about behaviour kindly at other times. Have Saturday breakfast together with waffles and stuff and say something like 'I got really upset and cross yesterday when you were shouting and crying at the playground. Can you explain what was going on for you so we can do it differently next time? It wasn't very nice for anyone.'
You can come up with strategies for what to do when she feels like that.

Have some destressing activities that you do often and that she can ask for when she need it- like hot chocolate or a big squeezy hug or a bounce on the trampoline. Make a collection of those things. Do them often and remind her she can choose one of those if she's getting a bit agitated.

It's about teaching her better strategies for managing frustration/disappointment/sadness etc.

There are all sorts of ways of teaching children to be more emotionally resilient- including avoiding situations that trigger problems.

I had one that couldn't decide how to spend pocket money. School trips had to take him somewhere else while the other children went to the souvenir shop. It was a big deal and it had to be managed. That's ok. Sometimes they aren't able to handle particular things yet.

But bring devils advocate if she was ND how would a label help her?

Because ND children don't respond to normal methods of discipline and it might help you to understand what strategies will work. Your current ones don't seem to be having much effect. You say 'don't you think I wouldn't have looked into in if I thought shd was ND', but you don't actually say if you HAVE looked into it.

I haven't kept reading the full thread because I can't even, but of course you impose discipline on an ND child. It's just that all the usual tactics (taking away tech, even hitting) do not work. There are tried and tested strategies that do, and the aim here is to transfer to those, and also to not make it all about 'my child is embarrassing me' but about the welfare of the child.

No idea why you are so angry OP at posters suggesting ND. If my child was acting out every time I saw people I would want to consider all possibilities.

It might be ND, it might just be bad behaviour. Either way you need to find a way to deal with it. Because no one is suggesting ND is an excuse for kicking off and hurting others, just that it might provide an explanation. Understanding why something is happening gives you a starting point to work out how to deal with it.

Since whatever you're doing now is not working. Ross Greene, author of The Explosive Child, says children do well if they can. I hope you can help your daughter work out how to do well.

Their has been multiple posters saying dont discipline her as disciplining a ND child doesn't work. Yet they seem to think op is the one with the problem.

No one has said don't discipline her. People have said if she is ND the current strategies may not help and others may be more effective.

No one has suggested that, though. And I can assure you those of us with ND DC still discipline, we just do it in a way that is effective for a ND child.

Good answer OP.

Does she ever regret her behaviour?

She is maybe a little old for it but do you try role play with her? So , for example, after hitting you in the park trying to get her to replay what she could have done and how she could have managed her behaviour. I'd also be asking her how other kids might respond in the situation and what the other people around might be thinking of her. I bet you've already tried this but it's worrying if she isn't embarrassed by her own behaviour.
I'd still carry on with punishments. Removing the iPad and screen time might work well. I assume you've got it set up correctly and have proper parental control set up on it.

Are there any other factors that might be making her worse? Does she witness bad behaviour elsewhere? How do you and your partner (if you have one) behave? Do either of you have a 'temper'

One thing you need to be really careful of is how this is effecting your son.

OP, have you had a chat with the school about your concerns about her behaviour? Even if they're not seeing it in school, informing them helps them to build a picture of her personality as a whole, not just her school persona. They can keep a closer eye. IF she is ND, schools often don't start picking up on the signs with 'model pupils' until they hear about hone life and start to join some dots. They'll be able to informally observe her in school, to see what they notice.

Schools often have family support workers too who can suggest strategies and tips, or enrol you on parental behaviour management courses etc.

That's not what everyone is saying at all though, is it? Op has said the usual strategies don't seem to work. If you continue doing what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always had. As someone up thread said, even if she's not ND, some of those parenting strategies may actually work. If your understanding from all of the advice offered here by parents of nd children is that they believe an effective strategy is giving them an iPad, then I think you have been extremely selective about what you've read and understood. If the reason for op's dd's bad behaviour is ineffective parenting, then there are plenty of free parenting courses she can enrol on, which the vast majority of nd parents have already completed - because it has been a necessity precursor to accessing support. And no, "give them an ipad" does not feature in any parenting course. Indeed, most parents do the courses and have a defining moment of "these are all the things I've done with my child, and which don't work". If op is saying she believes her parenting is the issue, then fair enough - she needs to change her parenting and hope it's not too late to remedy.

To be honest, there are 3 types of parent when it comes to ND in my experience.

There are of course those who pick up the possible signs, research it and accept it could be their child so get them assessed and accept/embrace the diagnosis if it comes.

There are those whose child is just a brat, based on their piss poor parenting, who can't accept this and are adamant their child must be ND. They push for an assessment despite nobody else (schools etc) sharing their concerns, as everyone around them can see their parenting is the problem.

Then there are others, who desperately don't want a ND diagnosis, so bury their head in the sand. They'd rather face the idea of them being the problem (ie poor parenting), than accept their child could be ND. The world is so much more understanding and accepting of ND these days, but there are still stigmas and misconceptions. Many still think don't think it's possible that their child could be, or are so against the idea they convince themselves they can't be.

I think many on here have picked up that OP could be in the 3rd category and were gently trying to coax them to research it further, as it's so unusual for parents to hold their hands up and say "ok, what am I doing wrong ? What can I do better?" when they do generally just have a brat. So many parents are desperate for a diagnosis these days to explain away poor behaviour, even when it's clear their child isn't ND. This way around, of parents accepting that it is just bad behaviour, is more unusual if it is indeed just a case of poor behaviour. As OP is so fiercely adamant their child can't be ND, it does indicate there could be a touch of denial involved. That's all.

Saying if a child hits you more than once it's your fault is a horrible thing to say.

If that was adults we'd say it's victim blaming.

Children can and do show self-control at school and then have melt-downs at home. It's very common. Dd was liké that with probably undiagnosed PDA.

The books I recommended earlier in the thread (The Explosive Child and 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child) are helpful, or at least, I found them helpful, because they encourage the parent to look at how their own behaviour and feelings are helping or hindering the situation.

Finding your children embarrassing (which we all do at times) doesn't generally lead to stellar parenting decisions.

It sounds to me like you aren't clear enough on boundaries and are letting bad behaviour slide for an easy life. For example if she wants to push the trolley and then is misbehaving doing it e.g. crashing into things you say - don't crash into things. If you do it again then you won't get to push the trolley any more. And follow through immediately. If it's an expectation that she needs to share her sweets then set that out when buying them- you need to share at least one sweet with your brother today or no more sweets. And follow through, no matter what she says or does.

Is there a particular reason she might be feeling resentful of you, do you get much one to one time?