How to stop DD embarrassing me?

It’s awful, isn’t it? I was lucky to be able to put him in a school with only 150 pupils. He was lost in mainstream primary.

But personal qualities shine in the workplace- diligence and reliability etc.

He is early 20s now. No qualifications at all, but has found his niche, has a job he enjoys albeit low paid, and is ticking along, has just started taking on extra tasks at work which should lead to a bit of a pay rise.

Fundamentally he is a nice lad, he just didn't fit the mould we are currently trying to fit all youngsters into.

That pesky trigger-happy flight or fight response was an issue for us. Thankfully the "fight" bit rarely occurred, but the "flight" part was off the chart.

I ended up homeschooling him for a couple of years in the end as he couldn't cope with secondary school. That was the calmest period we had, it was brilliant and we had lots of fabulous days out together.

I put him back into mainstream education to try to get some qualifications and it was like flipping a switch, it all started again, with weed thrown in to the mix. I really, really regret doing that putting him back into mainstream. He got no qualifications at the end of it but spiraled into self-harm along the way.

I don’t know how old your son is, so this may be irrelevant- DS couldn’t do maths to save his life. He was really behind at school- like, barely performing at reception level. Turned out he can’t do numbers. His secondary teacher started them all at the same point and as if by magic he could do it all! He ended up being great at maths as soon as maths was more than ‘number work’.

He still has no concept of numerical value unless it relates to data and ping and download… but he’s got a great job in tech and can do whatever he wants.
He just can’t do number bonds and arithmetic.

So if your lad is still young, try some different strategies. Mine looked like he’d be unemployable and have no qualifications, when he was 8/9/10. He was so far behind. Couldn’t read, write or add up! Bless him.
You never know!

Equally, neurodivergence is a term used to encompass a huge variety of conditions, besides autism. Who is to say she doesn't have one of the many others (including adhd - lack of impulse control), or overlapping ones? To echo someone else up thread, children do well if they can. All behaviour is communication, regardless of neurodivergence. Poor kid getting called Verruca Salt by her cousins, and her mum calling her a spoilt brat. By age 8, neuro typical children might whinge, or complain, or argue, or stamp their feet, but they've usually developed the ability to regulate their emotions and certainly it isn't 'normal' for them to still be having tantrums, or 'meltdowns'. Whatever is going on with this child, more punishment is not likely to achieve anything but escalation if it hasn't worked so far.

This sounds really hard,OP. I had to reread your OP to see her age and assumed she was 2 or 3 at first. You asked about normal and I don’t believe regular tantrums are usual at 8.

it sounds like you’ve had a lot of ‘golden child syndrome’ feedback from close family. Can you ask the adults to give you examples and start there?

I’d have zero tolerance for hitting her brother or anyone else. That is really low. Sit her down tomorrow and explain it won’t be tolerated any more and if it happens again there will be serious, instant consequences (she loses something she values Hobbies? Screen time?). Then she knows and you must follow through if it happens. Plus plenty of attention for DS.

Parenting strategies are not therapy. They are ways of parenting that prevent or minimise meltdowns and enable the autistic child to cope better with life, which means they are far less likely to actually lash out and more likely to end up as functioning adults who can cope with life.

But you go on sneering about lego therapy in your bubble, by all means. 🙄

If you can learn to parent appropriately, then the child isn't required to engage with anything, it just happens.

Half of appropriate parenting is knowing your child, being aware of potential triggers, giving a bit of thought to what activities are planned and possible scenarios, and doing things as appropriate.

It's not about Lego therapy or any other therapy. I think you have got the wrong end of the stick and mixing up strategies with therapies.

So-called strategies actually require the ND child to actually engage. If they don’t want to engage with the lego therapy or whatever bollocks they recommend then nothing can be done.

And why would they engage when they can get away with punching an adult?

I don't see anyone who has excused it. People have said it has to be dealt with differently in ND children. And absolutely should be dealt with.

We're not excusing, we're explaining. The difference is vast.
If neurodiversity is spotted early, and parents adapt their coping strategy, then children will grow up far, far less likely to retain the need to act with violence, because they will have learned healthy coping strategies from their parents.

It's all about prevention. ND men who are violent can also be rehabilitated if they receive the right care. There's still no excuse for their behaviour and it should not be tolerated, but there are different ways of addressing that and the punitive route is not always the best one.

A meltdown and a tantrum are 2 different things.

I've not seen any of those. Unless your conflating discipline with punishment which obviously aren't the same thing?

All those of you excusing violent behaviour in ND children, how do you feel about ND men who beat up their partners?

Is it a valid ‘excuse’ and can’t be helped if overwhelmed/ having a meltdown?

I'm glad you're sure, for whatever reason, that your daughter is not ND, but please DON'T go down the "everyone is a little bit autistic", or "everyone has some autistic traits" route!! Apart from being highly insulting to autistic people, not to mention, extremely dismissive of the difficulties we struggle with daily, it's also not true. Autism is not defined, nor diagnosed, by the traits we have but by the severity of those traits and the impact they have on our lives, not to mention the obvious; the sheer number of those traits present. And no one was being Dr Google, that was also highly insulting (and ironic, given that you, yourself, have "diagnosed" your child as not ND, and not through being assessed by a professional, or you would have simply said that). Don't ask for advice if you don't want to hear advice taken from personal experience, which was what the majority of those who suggested an ND possibility were giving. We know what we're talking about, (for the most part. I'll ignore the one who decided they knew what was what because they think every ND child acts the same way), and therefore we recognised a lot of suggestive behaviour. I haven't read all the replies but from what I have read, I haven't seen anyone outright "diagnose" your child. We gave our thoughts. Which was what was asked for. But you didn't like those thoughts, so are now insulting autistics. Great response. I'm leaving this thread now because your response has highlighted your character admirably. I was feeling for you, whether your child was ND or simply a spoilt brat. I don't feel for you anymore. Good luck.

My autistic son can't do maths to save his life.

Does this mean every autistic child is useless at maths?

No.

ND or NT - everyone is an individual and express their emotions in their own way.

Some ND children will hit out in the heat of the moment as they don't process information in the same way, and many have a very trigger happy Fight or Flight response. That is beyond their control until they have matured a bit - and possibly have some outside assistance to recognise and manage these reactions.

Exactly @DrCoconut it’s only when the other stuff doesn’t work you get forced into trying different stuff like this, anyone who hasn’t had to do it can sit at the sidelines judging all they want

@Donotneedit The turning point with my oldest was when a friend who had a child with autism told me that he was showing signs of it and talked about some possible strategies. From that day I treated him as if he was ND even though he didn't have a diagnosis yet (eventually he got one). Previously I had been advised by people to be stricter, punish him, force him to do things etc and it was just not working at all. I use the same strategies now with my youngest who is also awaiting an appointment for investigation. People have their opinions and I'm accused of spoiling, pandering etc but picking my battles and making sure he is not overstimulated or subject to too much demand is critical.

I'd like to offer a different perspective on that description:

As you mentioned yourself, she is caring and compassionate. The "uncaring" and "egoistic" label for ND is often applied unfairly. Many ND people do care and help others in need. But the difference is the control of the situation and the actual need.

Someone forgot their money and can't buy ice cream on the trip: person needs help, she feels sorry for them - she's able to help and does so.
Bringing sweets to the class: voluntarily and planned activity, also as others pointed out, class is a social situation you'll be in for the forseeable time; it helps to have your friends. On the other hand, NDers sometimes try to "compensate" for perceived "deficiencies" (feeling different / less), which is why they try to make up the difference with giving things.

Sharing items at home / with family: a different situation when home is the area where she can look after her own needs more.
In the case of the sweets situation, if her brother has equally many sweets as she has, there is objectively no need to share her own (even if her brother acts different). Each kid has the same amount of sweets. If her brother shares some, that's his decision. She does share in class, so why does she have to do it all the time?

About the toys: some people are very particular about things. They might also fear that items get broken when someone else uses them. Some people also have (irrational) fears about others using their stuff. Maybe they have bad experiences where someone else broke an item they were emotionally attached to. Maybe they like the way they arranged their possessions.

Why does it always have to be shoved down into people that they have to share everything / let everyone else use their stuff? As long as she can take turns on communal items like at a playground and is social and reasonable enough at school, I don't see why it would be so wrong to let her have some areas where she is in control and the things are only hers. As she proved with the help for the child who forgot the money, if a situation warrants it, she does share.
Her brother presumably has his own toys.

If you are that sure she isn’t ND then the problem lies with you. It’s your bad parenting. Why are you letting her hit you or her siblings. Being bratty and spoiled isn’t normal either so you need to control that. Perhaps look into classes . Sounds like serious chats are needed and punishments.

I think the problem is that OP hasn’t actually confirmed if she has had an assessment but just launches into anyone who suggests there may be underlying issues, which sadly makes it appear that she has already decided herself that her child is just badly behaved and doesn’t want to hear any alternative reasons.

The sheer irony of these comments is something else. So it's just YOUR experience that matters? To attribute ND for every child's bad behaviour is frankly offensive. Why do you think you know this child better than the OP?

You were being dismissive and rude because your experience of an autistic child hasn't been the same

you can roll your eyes and misunderstand (purposely or not) all you like, but there are many of us that have been there and would love to stop just one family going through the same

How dare you say these things to me. Just who do you think you are? The arrogance of your comments is on another level. You don't seem to be able to see outside of your experience. OP has already said her child is NT. Accept it, she knows her child better than you.

But what yo are saying is that she is choosing to be like this.?
To what end,? As she will know you are annoyed. Hear presumably the cousins calling her names? Verruca salt. Know that her school friends saw her getting mean with her mum.

Its not usual 8 year old behaviour. Spolit kids can be brats but they would start to control that behaviour like at school.

How old would you rate her behaviour
at school
At home
With cousins

perhaps she find the younger cousins very frustrating in a way kids her age are not at school.
The park to home is a transition but also free play in the park can involve compromises

Its true we dont know the full situation but also true that most 99% of parents wouldnt be able to ID asd in girls as it is not all (necessarily) at all lacking eye contact or stimming or language issues etc

It maybe struggkes with school shows or sports day or new places.

My eldest would probably be now at 12
at school 10 (with every so often drops down to say 8 refusing to do things)
At home 6-7 or out with us (fighting sister, not putting anything in bin, arguing)
Food issues have got more restrictive from when she was 7
Will not initiate any homework and its a battle
With cousins 10

Dc2 age 9
at school 9+. Except no close friends
At home. 6-7 (lot of refusal, arguing)
With cousins 8-9
At parties i would say 7-8 lot of crying when injured or there too long

And meltdowns aren't a way for us to "get what we want".

It's often that we've become completely overwhelmed by sounds/noise/lights/people/smells/our clothing/texture/being touched or whatever trigger/triggers are there that we are in absolute terror or physical pain and we can't get ourselves back to normal.

As a child, a few times I didn't get what I wanted so I threw myself on the floor, kicked, screamed and told my mother I hated her then happily stopped when she bought be the toy anyway.

That was a tantrum.

Clinging to the walls, lamposts and hedges, trying to throw myself in front of traffic, crying to the point of vomiting, screaming and not being able to speak, having to be dragged into a building by three adults whenever I had to visit a hospital...that was actually a meltdown. Largely related to the lighting/smell/fear of the unknown/coldness of medical instruments etc. Smacking my bum and telling me I was a nasty little girl and look at what I was doing to my poor mother didn't help, A community nurse visiting my home, taking time to be kind and explain with pictures what would happen at hospital, why things smelled certain ways and letting me touch equipment etc...that helped a 4 year long problem.

Which was of course labelled as a "phobia" back then because I was "above average intelligence, kind and an angel in school" and only naughty little boys could be ND.

Quite.

In the past five years, I've never heard any of my friends who have NT say "tantrum". They all say "meltdown".

It's frustrating because meltdowns and tantrums really aren't the same thing and need different approaches. If I as a ND, person say, "I had a meltdown in the airport so I was unable to get on the plane", it makes me sound like a spoiled two year old who's thrown themselves on the floor in Tesco because Mum wouldn't buy them a chocolate bar, and it shouldn't. Us ND people have a word that describes what is happening to us and it's been misused by NT people to the point that it's meaningless now, and there's no other word for us to use for it.

When my friends of NT kids arrive late and say "Sorry we just couldn't get out the door, Nova wouldn't put her shoes on and I've had an absolute meltdown to deal with."

It's really not the same at all as when friends of ND kids are talking about genuine meltdowns, where their kids might be bashing their heads against a wall repeatedly and tearing chunks out of their hair and from which it can take hours to get them regulated and feel safe again. Personally, I find it quite frustrating when people refer to a tantrum as a meltdown. But all the kids are having them these days!

Then there's the opposite problems...when a ND is having a meltdown in a public place and the older generation moan about the "spoiled little madam having a tantrum, she'd have had a smacked bottom in my day!"

My meltdowns have always involved silence and withdrawal.

See, for me that's what I call a shutdown rather than a meltdown.

Language, eh?

HEllo114

so sorry you’re going through this, my middle son was exactly the same as your daughter, he was well behaved at school but was so naughty and embarrassing with me, his health visitor had the view that he was naughty with me as he knew I loved him but with others he knew he had to earn it, he himself once said to me that he used all his goodness up in school and only had badness left. I’m very sad to say that at the age of 34 he’s still the same