"Prime Minister Keir Starmer recommits to £3 billion a year of military support for Ukraine until 2030/31 and for as long as needed"

I have been a conservative voter my whole life, up until Brexshit. I was surprised to learn that Labour have not necessarily inherited stronger economies and in fact, it is the other way around in many instances. I suggest you conduct further analysis of your figures.

@hamstersarse What negotiations would these be?

Give me half your country and I'll stop murdering you?

It would be funny if it wasn't so fucking tragic

Israel isn't Russia in this false equivalence.

The 'disabled bill' and national security are not mutually exclusive.. it doesn't work like that..

The disabled bill is enormous because the Tories fucked the NHS ..

Get someone in need of a couple of knee replacement fixed and they are no longer disabled.

Get someone who needs an autism diagnosis through the system and they can seek work with reasonable adjustments.

Instead of selling parts of the NHS off to private American companies for profit .

THIS IS WHERE THE MONEY GOES .. (to their shareholders) .obscene

Russia isn't interested in just the Eastern areas of Ukraine @@TreadLight

"Russia needs to prepare to seize the entire territory of Ukraine after Moscow and Kiev sign a peace treaty and conclude the war, said Deputy Chairman of the Security Council Dmitry Medvedev.
Even after signing the papers and taking the defeat, the remaining part of the radicals [in Ukraine] after the regrouping of forces sooner or later will return to power, inspired by the Western enemies of Russia. And then the time will come to finally crush the shit, - Medvedev wrote in the telegram channel.
According to him, at this point, Russia will have to "bend a long steel nail into the lid of the Bandera quasi-state" coffin, as well as destroy the remains of its bloody heritage and return the remaining lands to the fold of the Russian land.
But the enemies of Russia will not go anywhere after that. They will save strength and wait for a new convenient reason for the destruction of our country. We must be ready for future battles to protect the Fatherland," Medvedev stressed."

https://www.moscowtimes.ru/2024/07/10/medvedev-prizval-gotovitsya-k-polnomu-zahvatu-ukraini-posle-podpisaniya-mira-s-kievom-a136344 You can hit auto-translate into English

Negotiation on what, he had invaded a country which he had no right to, with no provocation. What would the negotiation be 'you can half of OUR country if you stop this war now!

It's very different to the gaza conflict where hammas provoked Israel and still have some of their hostages. Israel have said they will agree a ceasefire if all hostages taken last year are returned unharmed. However, I doubt Hammas will or can do this.

Good for him !!

Might be just a tad biased as just had our second year anniversary with our fab Ukrainian 'guest' (now firmly part of our family.)

We know in a daily basis what is happening there .. if NATO allies don't support and Putin succeeds Latvia and Estonia will be next. He is a despot and a bully . Never let him win.

Exactly, the tories have left the nation in a fine state, now Labour are scuppering it. Bloody lefties.

Not only that but China is now involved in security and policing in Hungary.

https://hungarytoday.hu/chinese-police-officers-soon-on-patrol-in-hungary/

As someone in receipt of disability benefits and really hates that it's necessary, I'm all for supporting Ukraine in its fight to remain free and in fighting against the Russian attempts to destroy the better aspects of the West.

Fair enough. Bit it’s a bit off to attack any government on a basis of its successor’s willingness to continue to pay for the defence of Ukraine.

Allegations of Tory cronyism are also false - at least in the sense of being abnormal for any government - but not for this thread.

Standing up for what is right

Preventing much worse problems in the long term

And if the disabled bill goes down because we make people fitter and healthier then I don't see what the problem with that is either

We cannot let Putin succeed in Ukraine. The consequences of that are unimaginable. Although if Trump wins in America our 3 billion will not help much

I believe VAT on school fees will cover it

@FinalCeleryScheme

I'd rather you didn't call my comments foolish.

My tax has been used to fund contracts for cronies and failed projects by the tories.

I'm pleased it's being used to fund support for Ukraine. Whether that's a continuation or additional funding, I don't actually give a fuck as long as we continue to support Ukraine

@Newbutoldfather
I am pleased for Poland and all those other countries, no longer under the Soviet Empire, that are now performing well. It has to be a success story. The UK has been less so, but to suggest we are not a power in any sense is stretching it a bit far. I suspect your agenda is to bash the UK really. Not worth wasting my time on really.

Standing up for what's right often has a price.

Or we could just let the world descend into a free for all where the scumbags rule...

@Newbutoldfather That is not what I said. A coalition of anti-West states may do. Russia will rearm as a result of its experience in Ukraine - a wake up call. China is playing the long game and Russia will partner it. But both covet Africa which has the human resources they need. It is dangerous to think of Russia in a vacuum of its own.

@kovus,

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/tusk-promises-poles-will-soon-be-richer-than-brits/

There is some evidence that Poland has a good chance of surpassing the uk’s gdp/capita by 2030.

You can cavil about PPP vs absolute measure but PPP is appropriate for how rich you feel. The trend is also clear.

The UK is no longer a world power in any sense.

This is nonsense. It’s a falsehood that continues to circulate however many times it’s shot down.

Labour since WWII has inherited better economies than it has left. That’s the false basis of the claim.

@Kovus ,

Do you really believe that Putin, considering he can’t even invade Ukraine, would try and take on Poland, and then drive towards the French coast? This is 70s thinking!

We would annihilate him in the air and then invade Russia at our will. Of course, that is ex nukes which, if used, and they probably would be, would be the end of all of us.

Modern weapons are all about the chips, and Russia doesn’t have them. Even China is a few years behind the U.S, which is why Taiwan is so strategically important.

Putin is a despot, but we have to hope that he is not suicidal.

Oh and let’s raise 1.5billion for education or NOT as it’s going to cost more by adding VAT to fees, jeez this country.

We need to have the means and ability to defend ourselves and the resolve to do it. By 'ourselves' I mean the democratic West.

We now have to reinvest in the means and ability. The resolve may take a little while longer and our survival may depend on it.

I agree and was against the war in Iraq from the start. This is different though. Putin has invaded a country without any justification. He is not defending Russia. He’s invading Ukraine. If he succeeds then it’s likely to then go further. Firstly we have a duty to help Ukraine defend themselves and secondly it’s important Putin isn’t emboldened to push further, for our own security.

Our participation in some wars are justifiable though @spuddy4 .

The 1990 Gulf War, The Balkans conflict, WW2, for example. Wars show not sign of ending. There will always be someone trying it on. Regardless of mistakes any society may make, eg 2003 Iraq War.