Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"Prime Minister Keir Starmer recommits to £3 billion a year of military support for Ukraine until 2030/31 and for as long as needed"

285 replies

changefromhr · 11/07/2024 07:31

That's a huge amount of money for a war that's not going to end anytime soon.
3 BILLION a year!
3 x 1 thousand millions!
Where is this money going to come from? This is in addition to almost £12.5bn in military, humanitarian and economic support already given for Ukraine since Russia’s illegal and miscalculated full scale invasion in February 2022.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-stand-with-ukraine-for-as-long-as-it-takes-pm-to-tell-nato

UK to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes, PM to tell NATO

The international community cannot waver in the face of relentless Russian aggression, the Prime Minister will tell NATO today.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-stand-with-ukraine-for-as-long-as-it-takes-pm-to-tell-nato

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 12/07/2024 12:20

Solidarity and allyship with Ukraine is essential to safeguard both our own and western European security. There is no reason to not sell or donate weapons to an ally. There is no reason to place restrictions on the use of those weapons beyond what is already forbidden by the Geneva convention. There is no reason to force Ukraine to defend itself with one hand tied behind its back.

Russia launches attacks on Ukraine from airbases hundreds of kilometres inside Russian territory and fires the weapons without the aircraft crossing the border. Ukraine should legitimately be able to whack those sites and prevent those Russian attacks before the weapons are fired, which is best done when the aircraft are still on the ground.

I would go further, personally if I were NATO. I would openly authorise and deliver detailed intelligence and targetting data to Ukraine, and openly authorise and deliver campaign plans to liberate the occupied territory. I would also provide a no-fly-zone over the unoccupied part of Ukraine with NATO aircraft, allowing Ukraine to focus its own aircraft (and the F16s) on occupied territory.

Sometimes you just have to roll your sleeves up.

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 11:55

wtfissummer · 12/07/2024 11:02

@duckfordinner I'm disenfranchised 🤣

I use the app and app users can't vote

We should raise it with @Mumsnet. Why can't we vote in app?

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 11:51

@WinterMorn I actually agree with you on this. That was painful for Remainers. In any case, we should see what results will be when the poll is closed on here in 5 days time.

WinterMorn · 12/07/2024 11:38

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 10:45

Nice try..but doesnt grab me at all.. .53 vs 47 are not that different. Still 5 days and 20 hours to go?

Lets put that in the context of the Brexit referendum and see how that argument sits.

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2024 11:17

“This is typical labour behaviour“

And bingo, there we go! Sunak would have committed to the same, had he remained in post. Johnson would have argued for more.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 12/07/2024 11:11

It's true that there is a massive attempt by Russia to artificially influence social media in the UK - Mumsnet was even spoken of as one of the targets :o (I still find that surreal)

wtfissummer · 12/07/2024 11:02

@duckfordinner I'm disenfranchised 🤣

I use the app and app users can't vote

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 12/07/2024 10:53

Nice try..but doesnt grab me at all.. .53 vs 47 are not that different. Still 5 days and 20 hours to go?

That's not a bad ratio considering all the russian bots out there targeting social media will have voted YANBU. I'm not saying everyone agrees with the policy of funding Ukraine but one things for sure everyone in the employ of russia will be against it.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 12/07/2024 10:49

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 08:58

@beguilingeyes KS didn't get "enormous" majority - only 33.7% voted for him. In lots of places Reform came second. His mandate is weak.

And the Reform vote was bolstered by russian interference, as was the Brexit vote. Farage thinks Putin is a great guy who was forced to attack Ukraine because 'NATO'. (No mention of the fact that Putin has diverted troops from the borders of Finland to Ukraine since they joined the defence alliance so great a threat does he feel NATO to be.)
Another referendum on anything would allow yet more interference from the bot farms. I don't think many people have switched on to the huge danger russia poses to our democratic processes in Europe.

PregnantWithHorrors · 12/07/2024 10:47

We enacted significant constitutional change on a lesser mandate to that. Much to Putin's joy.

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 10:45

WinterMorn · 12/07/2024 10:22

Which makes it a majority of people in favour of supporting Ukraine. How does that grab you 🙂

Nice try..but doesnt grab me at all.. .53 vs 47 are not that different. Still 5 days and 20 hours to go?

PregnantWithHorrors · 12/07/2024 10:35

BrigadierEtienneGerard · 12/07/2024 09:26

His mandate is fucking enormous! It's seats in the House that count. All other figures are meaningless.

The "popular vote" figure is of no more relevance than the number of left-handed red-haired Welsh who voted Labour.

Not least because so many other political parties, including the one that came second, also favour financial support to Ukraine.

Watching people who are in the minority on the issue whine impotently about it is funny, though.

WinterMorn · 12/07/2024 10:22

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 10:10

Wow.. What a pile on! Haha..I expected it from vigilantes.. Apparently, only your opinion is right, isnt it? Ignore everyone else at your peril.. Even on mumsnet 47% are voting against it but you keep staying in your echo chamber.

Which makes it a majority of people in favour of supporting Ukraine. How does that grab you 🙂

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 10:10

Wow.. What a pile on! Haha..I expected it from vigilantes.. Apparently, only your opinion is right, isnt it? Ignore everyone else at your peril.. Even on mumsnet 47% are voting against it but you keep staying in your echo chamber.

beguilingeyes · 12/07/2024 09:40

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 08:58

@beguilingeyes KS didn't get "enormous" majority - only 33.7% voted for him. In lots of places Reform came second. His mandate is weak.

Coming second in a FPTP system means you're nowhere.
Reform have a measly 5 MPs. Their vote share hasn't really improved since they were UKIP or the Brexit Party,.or whatever Farage's latest scheme is.

wtfissummer · 12/07/2024 09:34

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 08:58

@beguilingeyes KS didn't get "enormous" majority - only 33.7% voted for him. In lots of places Reform came second. His mandate is weak.

🤣🤣

HappiestSleeping · 12/07/2024 09:30

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 08:58

@beguilingeyes KS didn't get "enormous" majority - only 33.7% voted for him. In lots of places Reform came second. His mandate is weak.

Only a 291 seat majority. Looks like a very weak mandate to me. 🤦‍♂️

BrigadierEtienneGerard · 12/07/2024 09:26

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 08:58

@beguilingeyes KS didn't get "enormous" majority - only 33.7% voted for him. In lots of places Reform came second. His mandate is weak.

His mandate is fucking enormous! It's seats in the House that count. All other figures are meaningless.

The "popular vote" figure is of no more relevance than the number of left-handed red-haired Welsh who voted Labour.

BrigadierEtienneGerard · 12/07/2024 09:24

Thoroughly sound idea.

duckfordinner · 12/07/2024 08:58

@beguilingeyes KS didn't get "enormous" majority - only 33.7% voted for him. In lots of places Reform came second. His mandate is weak.

beguilingeyes · 12/07/2024 06:58

duckfordinner · 11/07/2024 22:47

We should have referendum on this..

We should never have another referendum again, IMO. We have a Parliamentary Democracy. We just gave KS an enormous majority and it's for his government to make the decisions.
Putin sent his goons to murder people in Salisbury. It's only by tremendous luck that the toxin didn't end up in the water supply killing thousands. They also murdered a man in cold blood in a London sushi restaurant. He needs to be reined in.

blueshoes · 11/07/2024 23:50

IClaudine · 11/07/2024 23:45

But it his personal view that Ukraine should conscript under 25s not NATO's view?

Good point. This is not NATO's view at all.

blueshoes · 11/07/2024 23:49

Why do we care what the Ex US Ambassador to NATO says? Are we scraping the bottom of the barrel to find something negative about NATO and Ukraine?

IClaudine · 11/07/2024 23:45

PopSockette · 11/07/2024 23:34

He was quite clear on the Twitter link he wants total mobilization from Ukrainians before he says we can consider sending our own children. But it appears many Ukrainian men quite understandably don't want to fight.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o

Edited

But it his personal view that Ukraine should conscript under 25s not NATO's view?

PopSockette · 11/07/2024 23:34

IClaudine · 11/07/2024 23:26

Well I agree with you there 100% about not sending teenagers to war, but what you posted appears to be about what an Ex US Ambassador to NATO has said? So this is not coming from NATO itself? - but it is hard to properly comment without having access to a reliable link.

He was quite clear on the Twitter link he wants total mobilization from Ukrainians before he says we can consider sending our own children. But it appears many Ukrainian men quite understandably don't want to fight.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o

Swipe left for the next trending thread