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To ban crossbows & Military style knives in UK?

232 replies

StarryIsabella · 11/07/2024 00:15

First time poster, long term reader!

So I've been following the horrific news today about the monster who killed his ex partner, her sister and mother yesterday in Enfield (London).

Louise Hunt- (25) Hannah Hunt- (28) Carol Hunt- (61)

Reports state that he used a crossbow and other weapons (mainly knives) apparently he killed them in quick succession all at once at their home yesterday.

It shocks me how someone can obtain a weapon like a crossbow that fires arrows rapidly with immense force that can easily break through bone and kill. It's literally a gun, it loads and fires to kill if that's your intention.

Does anyone think these kind of weapons should be banned? What purpose do they serve? If it does serve a purpose then at least install a licence to own one where they can do background checks and interview the person for their reasons to owning one.

Alas! Another woman who wanted to be independent was brutally murdered along other her sister and mother for it.

Just a quick edit: killings with crossbows have happened before in the UK

In 2010, 40-year-old Stephen Griffiths killed 3 women in Bradford that he didn't know. He later admitted he was obsessed with killers and had a hatred for women. All 3 women were complete strangers to him.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 17:15

Some guns still exist under strict conditions. Most are banned now. There is some functional use to those that remain.
It's entirely proportionate to ban crossbows from general sale. They have no real functional use.

jeaux90 · 11/07/2024 17:13

The problem here is men.

Not crossbows, knives or guns, men.

PassingStranger · 11/07/2024 17:13

MrHarleyQuin · 11/07/2024 14:43

Stupid questions, shall we ban knives, shall we ban hammers, shall we ban cricket bats?

No, we do and should ban things that give you no fucking chance to fight back against, like big fuck off knives, automatic weapons, handguns, and crossbows.

Have a look will you when someone goes made with a knife in a shopping centre - still horrible, but compare it to the carnage with a automatic weapon. Had the murderer used a crossbow or gun instead of a hammer, all the Russells would be dead.

Edited

Let's ban people then.

FourLeggedBuckers · 11/07/2024 17:11

StarryIsabella · 11/07/2024 17:05

This may sound completely bonkers to you! But the lives of women, the lives of children! The lives of everyone are more important then a small minority who use crossbows for interests. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Yes, you’re right - that does sound absolutely bonkers. You’re pushing for a control on crossbows that exceeds even that which we have on guns. Is that proportionate, or sensible?

If that is genuinely your belief, there is absolutely no hope for a reasonable consensus here.

StarryIsabella · 11/07/2024 17:05

FourLeggedBuckers · 11/07/2024 17:03

So historical reenactors and actors in period movies / tv are “crack pots” then?

That’s the most batshit thing I’ve seen on here in ages 😂

Imagine Game of Thrones / the Lord of the Rings with plastic bows and arrows… Hideous. And then there’s the historical education side of reenactment and period tv productions.

Calling for an outright ban and coming out with some of hyperbole on this thread is just silly.

As I’ve said previously in this thread, I wouldn’t particularly object to licensing or greater control on the sale of bows - regardless of how effective I think it will be at reducing violence against women - but I would never support an outright ban, and all some posters on this thread are achieving is to alienate people who are more moderate in their opinions.

This may sound completely bonkers to you! But the lives of women, the lives of children! The lives of everyone are more important then a small minority who use crossbows for interests. 🤦🏼‍♀️

OP posts:
FourLeggedBuckers · 11/07/2024 17:03

So historical reenactors and actors in period movies / tv are “crack pots” then?

That’s the most batshit thing I’ve seen on here in ages 😂

Imagine Game of Thrones / the Lord of the Rings with plastic bows and arrows… Hideous. And then there’s the historical education side of reenactment and period tv productions.

Calling for an outright ban and coming out with some of hyperbole on this thread is just silly.

As I’ve said previously in this thread, I wouldn’t particularly object to licensing or greater control on the sale of bows - regardless of how effective I think it will be at reducing violence against women - but I would never support an outright ban, and all some posters on this thread are achieving is to alienate people who are more moderate in their opinions.

FrippEnos · 11/07/2024 16:58

oakleaffy · 11/07/2024 16:48

There are female Longbow tutors ( Yew bows, fired at inanimate targets )
A neighbour ( Female) shoots arrows from the back of her horse - A niche sport.

and according to *TwinCheeks *they are incels. Go figure.

oakleaffy · 11/07/2024 16:48

FrippEnos · 11/07/2024 16:16

In your opinion. But then you are the one resorting to calling these men and women, boys and girls incels.

It just shows your lack of knowledge.

Edited

There are female Longbow tutors ( Yew bows, fired at inanimate targets )
A neighbour ( Female) shoots arrows from the back of her horse - A niche sport.

Meadowfinch · 11/07/2024 16:45

@StarryIsabella

The trouble is OP, it's relatively easy to make a crossbow. Anyone with a workshop and a bit of engineering skill could do it. It's very easy to make a knife.

And anyway there are legitimate uses for knives - cooking, filleting etc. I have a bill hook for use in hedging. It's the size of a small machete and would be lethal in the wrong hands.

I think that anything with a trigger (including crossbows) and enough power to do some damage (high powered air guns) should be licenced, and have the same storage requirements as shot guns, but that's expensive.

In the end, it's the man at fault, not to weapon.

oakleaffy · 11/07/2024 16:41

WiddlinDiddlin · 11/07/2024 05:18

Where do you draw the line in banning things people can kill other people with?

Whilst I can see why the immediate question is 'why does anyone need a crossbow' (the answer is typically, sports/competition) - it isn't addressing the issue which really is 'people violently murdering other people' or even 'men violently murdering women'.

I actually don't disagree that our archery laws could stand updating... given it is still the law that all males in England over the age of 14 should do 2 hours long bow practice a week...

But that isn't the solution. Men like this will kill people with whatever they have to hand, if its not a crossbow or a massive military style knife, its a kitchen knife, a length of cord or their bare hands...

Why, and what, if anything, can be done to stop them wanting to kill in the first place?

Kitchen knives - sickles, a hardware shop locally sold serrated sickles that looked lethal -but good for brambles.

Amazon ID’d me at the front door for scissors ✂️
I actually had to get my passport to show the driver before he’d hand them over

They were just an afterthought to get free postage
I’m obviously over 25 -

Anything can be potentially used as a weapon

”Tactical” torches and pens are widely sold Under the guise of self defence

Ironically we can’t carry pepper spray like many places as it’s considered “
A firearm” in UK

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 16:41

@StarryIsabella I do get that certain men like them. I knew a guy, ex-UK forces, who had one, along with air rifles, and a shotgun (all above board, appropriate licences). He used to shoot the air rifle in his back garden which he said was perfectly fine as long as it had appropriate backstop. I bet his neighbours didnt dare hang the washing out! He was a decent and sensible enough guy but obsessed with that kind of stuff. Used to practice that krav maga martial art with nunchucks and sticks (where use IS regulated) etc at a gym. TBH he'd probs have no problem if crossbows were banned as he can get his kicks elsewhere and he'd agree there's no need for them other than entertainment. And thats the point really. Unlike a hammer, why do we really need crossbows?! Entertainment, as PP said you cant hunt with them, so they're little more than a lethal toy.

lovelysunshine22 · 11/07/2024 16:37

OptimismvsRealism · 11/07/2024 06:04

A lot of members of the Crossbow Vendors Association in this morning, I see.

Of course they should be banned. They are used to terrorise. There's no reason for them to be readily available. This line is easy to draw.

Absolutely this

FrippEnos · 11/07/2024 16:35

StarryIsabella · 11/07/2024 16:29

This 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Do you also agree that these people according to *TwinCheeks *are Incels?

And what makes them "crackpot reasons"?

StarryIsabella · 11/07/2024 16:29

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 16:10

A list of crackpot reasons is no reason to keep these barbaric weapons.

This 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

OP posts:
StarryIsabella · 11/07/2024 16:28

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 16:03

What kind of people buy these weapons with good intentions.

Hobbists
Sportspeople
Re-enactors
Professional renfaire artists.
amatuer enthuiasts
movie fans
theatre and movie prop professionals.

Yep, no useful purpose at all. Strange things to have on sale to the general public in this day and age.

They can always use plastic bow and arrows... I bet most people that buy them online aren't using them for those reasons.

OP posts:
FrippEnos · 11/07/2024 16:16

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 16:10

A list of crackpot reasons is no reason to keep these barbaric weapons.

In your opinion. But then you are the one resorting to calling these men and women, boys and girls incels.

It just shows your lack of knowledge.

Longdueachange · 11/07/2024 16:13

I don't agree with the arguments of banning crossbows not solving violence against women - it isn't about that. At least with a hand weapon the victim has a chance of running away or fighting back.
As a shooting family, I know that with rifles and shotguns we need licences, police visits and gun safes accessible only by the licence holder. I don't understand why it isn't the same for crossbows, or even more restrictive. It even isn't legal to kill or hunt using a crossbow, whereas you obviously can with a gun.

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 16:10

FrippEnos · 11/07/2024 16:07

You are really not making yourself look good with this.

A list of crackpot reasons is no reason to keep these barbaric weapons.

SoulMole · 11/07/2024 16:08

Sillystrumpet · 11/07/2024 00:17

It’s very rare for a cross bow to be used as a weapon to kill, unsure if it’s ever happened before, and normally they are used for sport. The sad truth is if he wanted to kill he could habe used a kitchen knife. Or his bare hands,

One happened near me - East Yorkshire.

HousedInMySoul · 11/07/2024 16:07

Sillystrumpet · 11/07/2024 14:50

Who is killing simply as the weapons are readily available? Who? Thats not a thing,

Wasn't there some research done that found that if you have a knife block in your kitchen, as opposed to keeping kitchen knives out of sight in a drawer, then someone who is angry is more likely to pick one up and use it, simply because it easily comes to hand?

FrippEnos · 11/07/2024 16:07

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 16:03

What kind of people buy these weapons with good intentions.

Hobbists
Sportspeople
Re-enactors
Professional renfaire artists.
amatuer enthuiasts
movie fans
theatre and movie prop professionals.

Yep, no useful purpose at all. Strange things to have on sale to the general public in this day and age.

You are really not making yourself look good with this.

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 16:03

What kind of people buy these weapons with good intentions.

Hobbists
Sportspeople
Re-enactors
Professional renfaire artists.
amatuer enthuiasts
movie fans
theatre and movie prop professionals.

Yep, no useful purpose at all. Strange things to have on sale to the general public in this day and age.

FrippEnos · 11/07/2024 15:59

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 15:58

No useful purpose at all.

Exactly like your post then.

EasternStandard · 11/07/2024 15:59

Uricon2 · 11/07/2024 15:08

I remember exactly the same kind of whataboutery after Dunblane, as if the (thankfully already limited) rights of gun enthusiasts were more important than innocent lives.

Crossbows are lethal weapons. They are in fact so effective that Pope Innocent III tried to ban their use (against Christians) in the Middle Ages. Nothing is going to convince me that them being freely available for purchase is a good thing and if people want to use them legitimately for target shooting, surely they would agree to them being heavily regulated and under lock and key at licensed clubs when not in use.

Wanting this does mean simplistically thinking that it will make violence against women go away.

Yes there probably was similar after that awful event. I agree generally

TwinCheeks · 11/07/2024 15:58

FrippEnos · 11/07/2024 15:57

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.” Abraham Lincoln

No useful purpose at all.