To feel angry at how few people make a plan for their own old age

Although 40% of those over aged 85 died in a care home

Many of those would only be there a few weeks

The majority of women have already died by then - the pension companies assume 82 - so at 85 you have less than 50% chance of being there

So planning for something that is unlikely to happen

40% of 40% would be 16% for example

I can see where OP is coming from.

There are lots of people who for some reason or other just live without any thought of their future, believing somebody will surely help them at the end.

In my friend's family there's a father who once gave no s#it about his children and wife and just lived very nicely, and then he lost everything in a bad investment, now he's old and hass suddenly remembered he has children who surely must take a good care of him in his old age, and he doesn't care if his children have health or money problems, because he's the father and they must take care of him. So nice to have somebody to fall back to. And then there's a chorus of very supportive relatives who wouldn't move a finger to help him but are very vocal with their sermons in the tune of "he's your father, you must forgive him and love him, and take care of him".

That said, I don't think anybody can diligently save and prepare for their old age, and be sure that it will turn out exactly as hoped. Too many unexpected things can happen. Like a new government with weird ideas, a war or some sudden health problems. Still, there are things everybody can do and hope for the best.

Nursing homes are different to care homes. Nursing homes are for people who need low level medical care and have a qualified nurse on duty at all times. The majority of residential care homes in England don’t provide nursing care.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree that a census is a snapshot in time, but the point of bringing up the stats in the first place was that people were saying that because only 2.5 % of people over the age of 65 are in residential care then it’s not something the average person should plan for. The UK government stats I linked to said that almost 40% of people aged 85 and over who died, died in a care home.

The takeaway from that is that if you live to a ripe old age, ie over 80, then there is indeed a good chance of you needing residential care. “Planning” for old age doesn’t just mean financial saving like a lot of people assume, it means thinking about the various scenarios that may occur and discussing and deciding with your loved ones what your wishes would be. Letting them know for example where the line is for you in terms of quality of life at which point you’d still want every medical effort made or whether you’d be happy to have palliative treatment only and let nature take its course. Put it in writing. Its never to soon to start.

The Elderly Parents board is full of exhausted daughters of parents who used to flippantly say things like “just shoot me if I get like that” and who took no steps to make things easier as they aged but expect others to now pick up the pieces. If that’s your ‘plan’ too then I hope you have really strong family relationships that will withstand the strain that will involve.

I sort of got what you mean.
I am the only single one in my family and still living with parents as can't afford to move out as a single person. I don't see that changing anytime soon. All my siblings have moved out as had much higher earning partners.
Despite having my own chronic illnesses, I know my father in particular assumes I will become a carer to them which I do find selfish.
In my opinion, old age creeps up quite suddenly. My grandmother always said she didn't want family caring for her if she got really infirm and yet when the time came, that's exactly what happened as she didn't want to accept anything else.

This is a very good point OP.

And at what point are you going to consider yourself as having reached old age? I’m guessing from your post that you don’t want to reach mid 70s, like your parents and their friends with the horror stories, so how will this work? Will you get to late 60s and top yourself? What if you’re still in really good health, completely independent, you’re financially secure and you’re really enjoying your life? Are you sure you’ll be ready to give it up?

Or what if something happens to you next week? Nobody has a stroke or gets hit by a bus, until they do. What is your plan for avoiding the need for 24 hour care when, overnight, you can’t feed yourself?

Sort a pension out if you can afford to. Save if you can afford to. Sort out a will if you’ve got anything to leave. Organise power of attorney while you’ve still got your faculties (assuming you trust your children). Don’t hoard stuff. All of that is common sense and what we all should be doing where we can, but the rest of it sounds like a teenager who is horrified at the thought of ever being 25.

My mum is knocking on for late 70s now. She hasn’t got a pot to pee in so there’s nothing to organise, other than cancelling state pension payments etc. She will never be going in a home and will never be found on the floor 36 hours after having fallen over. But that is my choice and my plan, not hers.

I also do not have a pot to pee in and unfortunately I can’t imagine a scenario where I’ll reach a ripe old age. If DH should go before me, for any reason, my plan is to always have my phone with me so I can call an ambulance if I need to, and to keep my home as clean & tidy as possible so the neighbours don’t gossip when the Housing Association has to hire a skip to clear the place after I’m dead. And that’s it. There is nothing else I can realistically plan for.

Yes absolutely. My job is in Older adults social work and part of it is to commission care for adults at home. I know all to well how inadequate our system is here. The other side of my job is carer support and even that is incredibly inadequate too.

It's interesting to read about the other side of carers in Japan. As I said I really don't know the answers or what the solution is, it was just an article that got me thinking!

I think sometimes these sorts of threads end up with people stating that some people cannot afford 50p and struggle to feed their family. Yes, of coruse there are people like this but honestly stating that MANY people cannot afford to buy their homes is not true. It sounds like most of us and its not. Found this snippet..

Overall home ownership (the percentage of households who owned their accommodation outright or with a mortgage, loan or shared ownership) was higher in Wales (66.4%) than in England (62.3%). Home ownership decreased slightly in both nations since 2011 (from 67.8% in Wales and 64.1% in England)

There are a lots of people who just dont plan, they dont think they will end up needing care (unless a family member does it!) and it all goes horribly wrong when they lose their sensible decision making. My Dear Mum - never wanted to be a burden, thought she could just live on her own just fine. Then started making foolish decisions and fibbed about what was going on. I ended up spending the next few years trying to help her to the detriment of my family.

But I always feel inspired when I hear about other countries like Japan where older adults live longer and are very involved in their communities and live active full lives. Whereas here we tend to view them a burden.

There are adults like that in the UK too.

The problem is that once someone is too old to care for themselves, there's no system that steps in to help. If family can't or won't step in, people are stuck with a couple of care visits a day or left to sit in a care home.

Many people these days can't even afford to buy homes, let alone support their parents indefinitely.

I think we need to be careful about romanticising another country’s position.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-59405105
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7349743/

These links would suggest caregivers experience similar stress to UK caregivers

I'm on a bit of a side note here and am thinking aloud but I always get sad that as a society we tend view elderly people as having little worth, that they are destined to "rot" away in care homes and have little quality of life.

Of course they are those that need care and are frail and have health problems (I know this as it's my job to assess those that do!). But I always feel inspired when I hear about other countries like Japan where older adults live longer and are very involved in their communities and live active full lives. Whereas here we tend to view them a burden.

Our current system doesn't work and I really don't know what the answer is but it is just something I think about due to my job.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200327-what-the-japanese-can-teach-about-super-ageing-gracefully

this is an odd thread.

Might I enquire what you think poor people on low incomes should do? We need people to do jobs such as caring, which pays notoriously badly. Without an enforced living wage that meets the cost of living, what's the plan?

Eermm, they are called pressure injuries in 2024. Or pressure ulcers.
Bedorses went out with Flo

I am sorry to hear about your parent and can empathise this must be really difficult for you.

You do seem to be equalling having no family with being alone. And unless your planning to live in an isolated island for the next 40-50 years then its highly unlikely you're going to be completey alone. You say you have a partner and friends and these can turn into deeper bonds than family. I find it excruciatingly awkward being in the same room as my siblings, I would quite happily have nothing to do with them and have friends who I am much closer with.

You have years before you have to worry about any of this and many people who are elderly live full and active lives right up to they die. None of us know how life will turn out and while its sensible to make plans, having it consume your life isn't healthy.

I really do wish you well in getting the support you need to help you live your life without this awful worry.

Nevertheless, if you take all the people over 65 in most western countries, only a small proportion of them are confined to nursing homes.

That is not a snapshot in time. Official statistics are not confused about the facts.

@Strawberriesandpears but do you know for certain you will be old and alone? I'm not being nasty but at this point in time it's a story you are telling yourself. You could very well meet someone and have a wonderful life, why does it always need to be negative instead?

that is my point, as a snapshot at any point in time, a small number of people are in a care home. Same as hospitals, only a small number of us are in there at any one time. But if you counted the number of us who have been in hospital at any point in our adult lives, that figure is actually much higher.

For example, if you get to 85 in England, there’s a greater than 20% chance you’ll be in a care home. https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/end-of-life-care-home-factsheet/January%202024/E92000001.html?area-name=England

@Senzafine Thank you and I do agree with what you are saying. I think it is just hard for others not in this position to understand how lonely it can be and how the fear of being entirely alone in the world can eat away at you. I have spoken to others in this position who tell me the same and have experienced the same feelings of anxiety and depression.

In more positive news, I am working to make connections in my life. Some days I feel more positive than others though.

I am currently dealing with the serious illness of a parent though which I find difficult and triggering - knowing that one day I will myself be old, alone and ill.

I think what is being said is that although at any one time only a small proportion is in a care home , that's not the same as the proportion that end up in a care home at the end of their life

This is typically quoted at around 10%
I believe that is excluding people who temporarily live in a care home before going back home

No, it isn't. It is in fact quite an old figure, but as a ballpark usually surprises people.

In the USA, not a particularly healthy nation, the percentage of people over 65 in care homes is.... 2.3%.

In the UK, the number is in fact dropping:

The proportion of the usual resident population aged 65 years and over living in a care home decreased from 3.2% in 2011 to 2.5% in 2021.

Older people living in care homes in 2021 and changes since 2011 - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

As has been said earlier in the thread, the 5% (or whatever it is) figure is the number in care homes right now. The number of people who will be in a care home at some point in their lifetime is much much higher.

Sometimes plans have to change...
My DH got made redundant in 2010,struggled to get work so ended up self employed. 7 years ago he had to give up working completely due to illness. So everything went out the window...his benefits just cover food and petrol, my income is up and down due to being self employed.....I'm 55 and planned on working part time by now, but I'm having to work full-time forever just to keep the roof over our head.

Well said

Both parents ended up in care homes in the end. 5% of elderly people living in them will definitely change. We are all living so much longer and the quality of life for some is shocking. Thinking of my late Father, patched up time and time again, incontintent, couldnt walk, couldnt see because he lost sight in one eye and the other was dodgy. Left with very little teeth. Lost a lot of his speech but for some that is fine - he is alive that is the most important thing for them.

What I think happens is that some people stick their heads in the sand about old age the burden it puts on often one person (the daughter!) whilst others pile in stating that what the elderly person wants should be the priority even though often the wants are reckless and often plain stupid. Others then need to pick up the consequences of those daft decisions.

I have seen the inside of care homes. They are what they are but there is always someone screaming often all day or who press their buzzer as the carer is walking out of the room time and time again. In the end they are ignored because clearly they have lost the ability to work out what they are doing. Do I want to go to one.. definitely NOT.

I hope by then assisted dying comes into place as I am not doing that to my children. Someone is making a lot of money out of these old people and we need to allow some dignity in dying - not keeping them going regardless because it makes US feel better about ourselves.

@Strawberriesandpears I hope this doesn't come across as uncaring but I notice you posting on numerous threads about your disadvantage of being an only child and how this causes such anxiety about being old.

I have siblings but they won't be having any children so it's not a guarantee of nieces or nephews. You sound like you think having siblings would magically cure you of this anxiety or stop you being alone when you're older and trust me it wouldn't. People with extended family still have this worry.

I assess older for people for care as part of my job and more often than not, the care is left to one child anyway due to siblings being too busy or having moved away. I also assess many people who don't have family and most of them are absolutely fine having lived happy full lives.

My child might be an only child but I certainly won't be guilt tripped into thinking I've ruined his life if he is one. I'm not expecting him to put his life on hold to look after me when I'm older.

I'm going to be blunt as I see you post a lot and I feel desperately sad this worry has taken over your life but having siblings and families isn't always the idealised version you think it is. You have two choices in life I feel. You can either spend the next decades worrying and obsessing over things that can't change and in turn closing yourself off to new experiences and actually living your life and meeting new people. Or you can work at controlling your anxiety (such as through counselling) and actually go out there and live your life, throw yourself into new experiences and opportunities which will help you build the connections that you so want.