To feel angry at how few people make a plan for their own old age

@SummerTimeIsTheBest I am lower paid. I used to be in the public sector. If I had stayed for 40 years I would have a better pension. But I hated the job and the pressures. So it really was not worth it. Present day matters too.

The original question was We are all going to end up in a bad way unless we're lucky enough to drop I down dead unexpectedly

Why do most people live in denial? There's nothing wrong with denial. I want to live in denial. I understand we're all fucked. I don't need to hear it. The most distressing thing I ever heard was a radio documentary where someone who worked with dying people said one of the people she was looking after didn't understand he was dying until she told him, then he cried but understood. I mean, why?

I have seen several older people making very silly choices which have negatively impacted them.

a couple in their 80s who moved 100s of miles away from family to live in a seaside town. Once they were there they complained about lack of accessible shops/medical care etc, how hard the winter was, how few friends they had. They were wealthy and could have easily afforded a holiday flat there.
Husband died within 2 years. Wife isn’t coping and has had to come back and live with relatives and is struggling with the stress of buying somewhere new again.

Friends wife has lost her driving license because of her sight. So they have moved from the middle of nowhere, near to a big village, so there are buses. But not IN the village, and there are no paths. So she is in effect still trapped in the house when friend isn’t there. It’s such an insane choice.

we know someone who pushed his parents to move from their massive house to a smaller more modern property with adjustment. His dad died through this process and his mum said if she had waited she wouldn’t have done it, and would be trapped where she was. I think there is a tipping point sometimes and if you don’t move, you just don’t.

@I8toys Yes you are right. People with a rural large detached house should downsize. That is a minority of people.

This is exactly why I took a public sector job and have stuck with it for 22 years. Great pension and I know I’ll be OK when I’m older. I could probably earn more in industry but the pensions are always shocking. It’s about looking long term as early as possible.

Fairer society I mean

Being single doesn't help.Some people can't afford to plan so stop judging and fight for a fairer family.

Who are you to say your parents have lived longer than they should have?

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong medical staff do not try to lengthen life at all costs. They start by asking the person what they themselves want. My mother wanted no treatment, so they abided by her wishes.

This. Don't judge when you don't know people's circumstances, OP.

Those places are really expensive though with massive service charges. Not everyone can afford that. My bog standard three bed semi wouldn't buy one, so not sure how I could downsize if and when the time comes?

Plus they are a nightmare for beneficiaries of wills as the charges still have to be paid when the occupants die and the property is waiting to sell.That can take a long time as people are beginning to realise they are a bit of a rip off.

I believe there should be a document completed to instruct medical teams and family etc to slowly withdraw from all medication except pain relief at a certain age or a certain stage of life. This would be like a DNR but done when a person has full mental capacity and is very clear, with legal status, like a will. I don't want to be a half life dependent on meds to keep me in that state. But family can't possibly do anything and medical staff will try to lengthen life at all costs. So something needs to be done to control end of life and it should come from the person themselves. Fwiw I think pharmaceutical companies are laughing all the way to the bank, the amount of meds the average 80 something is on is crazy.

My advice is have fun while you can. You have no idea what is around the corner.

I have no desire to live with pain and dementia. I have seen it and no thank you, not for me or DH

trouble is, your brain changes to the point you don’t recognise the true nature of the situation. So while your relatives are worried about you coping, you think you’re fine and they’re fussing. Mum was quite happy wandering in the street in a stained nightie and couldn’t understand why neighbours would be worried at the change in this previously immaculate woman.

have a read of the Elderly Parents board, its full of similar tales.

@Tombero So my FIL paid for carers from his own money plus attendance allowance. That is normal these days. Not many people have to go into a home paid for the the state. The criteria is so high that it is mainly people with dementia in homes.

My advice - downsize, keep only the essentials and give your money away as soon as you can to those you love before it gets eaten up with care.

That isn’t necessarily great advice because you can get done for deprivation of assets.

@Tombero most people pay for carers to visit 4 times a day from a mixture of their pension and benefits. The other obvious thing to do is for governments to attach a charge to any house people own.

You are not wrong OP but its complicated. In 2010 (i think) the government tried to bring in auto enrolment because so few people were saving for their pension. Its always hard to see and get people interested in a complex and deferred benefit. Pensions do tend to be a really hard sell. They are also disorganised as people don't have one individual savings pot they can move around with them and manage they have separate workplace pensions to keep track of, which makes it harder for people. There is also some residual mistrust going on due to past scandals, which doesn't help. Pensions are necessary and safe financial products that can make your later years much easier and more enjoyable but they need to be made much much easier and better managed generally. Also some funds are crap and some pension providers charge too much in fees. I really hope it gets better for people because the state pension age will keep rising and its not going to be much so we all need to take personal responsibility for that top up. In 10 years plus i fully expect assisted dying to be the norm which will reduce the number of people claiming a state pension. I have no desire to live with pain and dementia. I have seen it and no thank you, not for me or DH.

Our In-laws downsized into an assisted living apartment after living in a large detached house in the middle of nowhere. The family thought they were vulnerable where they were. They have a bistro on site. Hospital, doctors and pharmacy within walking distance. They are now within easy access of all the family. Family members now come and visit them asking why they hadn't moved before now.

This whole thread is making me want to off myself.

When people talk about their parents downsizing on MN, the places they are downsizing to, are what most of us would see as an upgrade. Sure if I had a large 6 bedroom victorian house I would downsize as I got older.

But more and more people will be living longer and their care will need to be funded by the state.

Conversely, many people aren’t in a position to pay higher taxes to cover this as a lot are struggling to make ends meet already.

Euthanasia is no laughing matter. But before we get to worrying about bumping off our active elderlies before their time, maybe first we could discuss keeping people alive unnecessarily when they have no quality of life.

I mean people with dementia or other brain illnesses, who have no idea who they are or where they are. Fed by care staff tapping their mouths with a spoon to trigger the mouth opening reflex like a baby. Stuffed full of antibiotics for every infection. Keeping the body going long after the brain and soul checked out, like living ghosts. Who are they being kept alive for? Would you want to exist like that? I certainly wouldn’t. Mum used to say not either, so she has a DNAR in place and a sympathetic GP who didn’t disagree with me when I said I thought a good death is part of a good life. DB and I would rather she quietly faded away at home with palliative care for an infection than being kept going for as long as possible but not knowing who we are, dying with no dignity on a busy hospital ward. But for now she hangs on at home, still just about with us mentally, always one virus or fall away from a crisis.

HFJ I think it can be a bit more complicated than that.

Downsizing is for middle class people. For those already in a terraced house, there is nowhere to downsize to. Decluttering is good for everyone to do from time to time.
The only real plan is have lots and lots of money. Everyone else will muddle through.