To think we’ve got it wrong about gender identity in children

What can we do to safe guard our children?

That was really interesting. Those of us who have followed developments for a while recognised the cult like nature of the current trans movement a while ago but it was interesting to see so many people repeating the same stock phrases to dismiss any questions raised about the wisdom of transitioning children.

The focus on men not "passing" if they don't transition as children also highlights how this is a men's rights movement. Testosterone is such a powerful hormone that the "passing" argument does not work for girls and yet they still advocate for puberty blockers, testosterone and mastectomies for gender questioning teenage girls despite the fact that the effects of testosterone on girls are less reversible than the effects of oestrogen on boys.

We're often told we're on the wrong side of history but I do wonder how history will record this period; well intentioned adults harming children by accident or a the mass psychosis many of us recognise it as.

This is the best, most sensible discussion I've seen on this in a long time. It makes me so sad and angry that my teenage children call me transphobic when I say it's impossible to change sex, and that gender is a social construct.

You've just described me as a child to a tee! I didn't have any brothers but did like to play with the boys next door..

I was born in 1966 and around 4/5 years of age, I decided that I would much rather be a boy so I dressed as a boy, kept my hair short and was absolutely delighted when anyone thought I was male. I've always been sporty too. All I can say is thank God, the gender clinics did not exist then otherwise I would probably have been counselled towards gender re-assignment or at the least, would have received inappropriate advice (I say this because many clinics have been criticised or closed down due to what appears to be an inappropriate agenda or bias towards the patie,nt actually being channelled towards puberty blockers and the like) Of course there may be gender Clinics that are objective and treat patients without any bias but you don't hear about them......

I was allowed to be me which was great and then quite naturally I transitioned into my teens/ womanhood and love being me. My husband always jokes that I have a bit of a "bloke gene"

Whilst I get that you don't need to wear make up, frocks, get your hair done etc. to be a woman, but I do and bloody love it

Have just got back from an evening walk, and while out I saw a young woman, shirtless, mastectomy scars, covered in tattoos including a massive noose(!) on her back, asymmetric metallic green hair (latter obviously not permanent but illustrates the complete conformity with a different set of stereotypes). I don’t know her obviously, but she looked really young and it’s just so utterly tragic and heartbreaking even though she probably doesn’t realise it yet. So much harm has been done already. Wonder what she learned about gender at school?

Your daughter sounds like the young me,
growing up as a tween in the early 80’s. I actually was so desperate to be a boy, I’d cry at night wishing I’d wake up as a boy.

I looked like a boy, played football, rode a boys Raleigh chopper bike. Never be seen dead in a dress. I desperately wanted a He Man castle grey skull. But then I also wanted a Barbie house too.

My mum couldn’t have cared less about any of it. At some point, I can’t remember what age, I just stopped thinking about it. I forgot to be bothered. I still played football as an adult (too old now), I’m not and have never been particularly feminine. But I haven’t once given any thought since those tween/teen days, of wishing I’d been male.

It’s scary where my life could be now, if I’d been born a lot later or with parents with different views. I no more wish I was male now, than I wish I was a cat.

Yes! I was that little girl who cut her hair short, wore her big brothers outgrown school
uniform as day clothes and wanted to climb trees, go mountain biking and do all the sports. If I had been born in today’s world I likely would have been being told I was born a boy in a girls body, and possibly even set off down the trans route. I’m so glad that it wasn’t around back then, as yes I enjoyed all those non-stereotypical things but I am still female, and proud of being female. As a child o longed to be a boy (identified very much with George from the famous five), but as an adult I am absolutely certain that I was born female and I am female and I have no desire to be male! The reason I wanted to be a boy when I was a child had nothing to do with sex or gender it was simply because I lived in a world where boys got to do lots more fun things and were valued more highly than girls - boys and men had all the power, and I wanted my share.

I agree. We have spent so much time telling our DC they can do what they like and don't have to confirm to gender stereotypes and then this...

My teen boy wants to identify as a girl. I'm so worried about him and I don't know what to do to help him xxx

Hard agree. I hated breasts and periods when they appeared. I'd have been tomboyish if I had been allowed, and I am as an adult a probably autistic lesbian. I am exactly the kind of child that could have been transed before I knew any better. It's terrifying.

I was what they called a Tom Boy growing up. I loved gaming, skateboarding, baggy jumpers and used to hide my long hair in a basketball hat. I also did martial arts and got my dan grade. I loved male company as I came from a family full of girls. They did my head in and I struggled to relate to anything they did. I dread to think what they would have done to me today. I would no doubt be confused and psychologically damaged. I still am more of a Tom boy at 44. I’m married with two beautiful boys. I consider myself normal. My boys when they were nursery age used to dress up as Anna and Elsa from Frozen and we had play kitchens at home. My youngest used to love wearing pink. It’s discovering who we are and what we enjoy shouldn’t be jumped on like it is today. No wonder kids have so many mental health issues.

What a pleasure this thread is to read. So many thoughtful, sensitive, reflective posts.
We must make sure that these are the voices heard going forward - mothers, parents and responsible adults determined to protect vulnerable children from these regressive ideas.

I find it really odd that anyone thinks we have any really need for gender in modern society where women/men do can do, wear, love, have sex with whomever and however suits them. I associate gender ideology with stereotyping

From what you’ve written I was similar to your daughter - was never really into dolls, well maybe a Sindy but never Barbie, rarely wore dresses unless forced to by my mother, hung out with boys mostly & climbed trees. When I turned 7/8 I decided I wanted to be known as Philip, wore corduroy trousers, a waistcoat & a flat cap. Apparently this phase lasted a good year or so. What did my parents do about it? Nothing. They let me do my own thing & get it out of my system. By the time I became a teenager I was chasing boys, wearing makeup & reading Jackie magazine. I’m now happily married & mother to two boys. When all this gender identification stuff came into the news I asked my parents about this phase & they said that of course they were worried but felt it was best to just let me work through it in my own time. And that is what I did. The result was of my making, no one else’s & I am comfortable in my own skin

I don't wish to make anyone's life more difficult who identifies as transgender. However, I do think the narrative has become like Orwellian doublethink.

By framing everything from the trans perspective, we have put transitioning seem a casual, easily achievable part of life, and ignored the significant challenges that are involved in such a transition. The positives are emphasised against the significant negatives.

I do hope we can find a tolerant way to be inclusive of everyone. But I'm afraid the sociology majors have gone too far into abstraction away from reality.

It would deeply concern me if I had a child who was being influenced in this way.

Forcing her to stay a girl when she is older and identifies as male could damage both her mental health but also her relationship with you.

But she IS always going to be a girl. Telling her lies about that at this point isn't going to help her.

Isnt it much better to reassure her there is no right or wrong way to be a girl and she can present / express herself however she wants as one?

You seem to have missed the point.

What does identity as a male mean. What is a male identity ? Without resorting to circular definitions and stereotypes we need to know what these identities are? You can't identity as something you can't define.

I don’t agree with children being taught that anyone can change gender because it can be really confusing for them when they are really young and if they decide they are one gender or another and start to transition but then decide they’re actually the gender they were assigned at birth it could cause serious psychological damage. I also don’t agree with your statement “I would very much prefer she remains a girl as her life will be so much more straightforward if that is the case”. More straightforward for who? You? Or your daughter? If she decides when she’s older that she is transgender are you going to tell her it’s easier for her to stay a girl and be unhappy in her body that it is to change her gender/sex? Are you going to disown her because she doesn’t identify as a girl anymore to fit your preference rather than her own? Forcing her to stay a girl when she is older and identifies as male could damage both her mental health but also her relationship with you. Agree that it’s not right to be taught this in school but accept that if she decides to identify as male or anything else when she’s older she will need your support

I completely agree with what you’ve said!
i remember reading years ago that there were cases of children who’d “changed sex” that then at 16-17 we’re so confused with who they were that they’d changed their minds etc… that’s more damaging imo . so sad too!
if you look at stories of families that have gone through this, like someone else mentioned there is often ND in play too.

I have experience of this in our family and I can honestly say the child in question only ever reacted to a positive reaction from a parent (think playing tricks/dressing in a princess dress) and from there the want to be the sex of said action grew and grew.. as a late teen now, the child is very unstable and has no real sense of who they are and I’d imagine regretting “change” quite so early (7). Should they have just been allowed to discover who they were themselves I think the outcome would be very different!!!

I couldn't agree more!!!

Having taught a STEM subject in schools its only recently (since COVID) that schools have been overrun with gender ideology.
Previously there have been big pushes to break gender stereotypes.
Getting girls into STEM.
Getting boys into cooking and textiles.
and various funding and grants that went with it.

Gender ideology with its stereotypes in schools is really bad and regressive for all children.

I was like that as a kid too, OP. Right down to insisting I was a boy for several years. My mum used to just say, "no, you're really a girl" if I brought it up.

My logic was, I felt like boys feel (as evidenced by my disdain of girly things) and also my hands were like boy hands (whatever that means, it seemed compelling at the time.)

I changed my thinking mainly when I became interested in boys romantically. It was like a switch, actually. I have wondered if this is why kids who are same sex attracted seem to struggle more with on this. I don't think it's gender identity though. I think it's really sexual identity. Not in a childish way, but in terms of coming to understand yourself as an adult who is sexually attractive to others and is sexually attracted in turn. Straight kids have to do this too, and it's scary for many young people at times, but I think more straightforward for straight kids. It's often also difficult for kids who have been sexually abused, or exposed to things like DV.

Gender ideology though, is just a bizarre fantasy with no scientific basis.

It's like the disastrous partnering of left leaning Utopianism and big pharma. Selling these children a delusion.

While posting, I've randomly put on a 100 synth-pop hits video... things were so much progressive at breaking boundaries 40 years ago. It's a shame that we've hit regressive attitudes in recent years. The irony is that "non-binary" is actually reinforcing stereotypes and pushing them into binary extremes and undoing the hard-won progress of recent decades.

Agree 100%
We've basically re-wound the clock to square one. There was a point - not all that long ago - where people wanted shops to move away from gendered clothing and pink lego/pink everything aimed at girls.....and now the stereotyping is back and being used to try and categorise and label anyone and everyone.

And another irony is that "being inclusive" ...is actually anything but...
People are different, they like different things, some girls like short hair, some boys wear make up.being inclusive would actually mean no one gave a stuff if a girl wanted short hair and liked rugby and motorsport, or that people accepted a boy who hated team sports and liked dance.
ND kids and teens will probably feel even more different or, havent yet found their tribe, or don't quite fit in and IMO it's really not being kind or inclusive to persuade them that this will be solved by changing gender.

This hard hitting documentary shows just how much grooming of children and teenagers has gone on online. It also highlights how many aspects of this ideology is comparable to cults. It's enraging but really worth a watch.
https://twitter.com/wrongbodies/status/1811125941541687316?s=19