To think we’ve got it wrong about gender identity in children

I haven’t noticed the social contagion of running off to join the circus sweeping through young people, nor resources in schools suggesting that it’s normal, nor school staff supporting it and not telling parents.
What a lame analogy.

You cannot compare it to a job. You can quit jobs and retrain any time you want.

You cannot recreate a penis and undo everything years of hormones have done to your body.

How has transition helped them in anyway if they can't cope with being around people who won't pretend you are their grand daughter as opposed to their grand son. What happened to having beliefs strong enough to with stand questions. I would argue that kind of fragility is a massive problem and that colluding in the massive lie has done no favours. Where's the resilience? Where's the ability to navigate situations outside your comfort zone. You can't spend life in a bubble.

Joining the circus or becoming a lawyer has no bearing on the rights of anyone else. Men thinking they can be women and going into those spaces for women in an infringement on those rights. Yeah some women won’t mind, but a lot would and they don’t get to give that away on behalf of those women who need single sex spaces for safety, privacy and dignity. It’s in no way comparable to joining a circus.

You wouldn’t affirm your child was fat if they had anorexia. Sometimes love isn’t affirming lies.

Totally agree OP. What's happening in schools is criminal. Please write to the Education ministers with your experience, it's important and you tell it well.

You’re so do right. No one’s allowed to a a tomboy any more.

Apologies - I was solely replying to a reply to a post.

You're allowed to rant x

I found my own child was much more willing to see family who called them by their preferred name and accepted who they wanted to be. In my child's case, this is their actual legal name and yet some family aren't using it.

I feel for your child. They want to be accepted by you as a daughter, and by your family as a niece or granddaughter.

You are allowed to disagree with them but it will be something, I suspect, that ends up with them cutting ties with you if continue how things are. There are levels of acceptance. You can say you accept that it's how they FEEL and that even if you don't understand or agree with it, you'll respect them by using preferred pronouns or a preferred name.

If your child wanted to join the circus and you thought they should be a lawyer, what would you do? Would you say they'd been manipulated by society and their odd circus friends? Would you force them to go to law school? Would you want them to be happy with their career choices even if you thought it was a terrible idea? It's about balance. You'd probably choose to tell them that you didn't agree or understand - even that they were making a terrible mistake - but hopefully you'd also say that you loved them and that them joining the circus wouldn't change that, even if you thought they were mad! And you'd love them. And if they became an amazing circus act... Or decided to train later on to become a lawyer... You'd still love them either way. When you're at risk of losing someone you love... You choose love.

Batgin

Haven’t read the entire thread but hard agree with the OP.

I have wondered whether it may be even later for some neurodivergent people.

Maybe talk to someone who is trans

I always roll my eyes at this.

My niece was 'trans' for a while. But after a few years 'living as a man' she decided that she wanted to go back to living as a woman. Unfortunately, the hormones she was have had long term health implications which she's dealing with now. She's also struggling because the trans community who cheerled her transition have now abandoned her.

So I have talked at length to someone who is trans, but I expect this is not what the poster had in mind.

Thsbkfully my niece did not have surgery. But trust me, excess testosterone fucks females up big time.

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic That sounds so very hard to be dealing with.

Maybe talk to someone who is trans

Why would you assume that someone with a different worldview to yours has not talked to someone who is trans? I have done so, and what I heard was as confused as what I am hearing from you. I have educated myself - I may have read more books by trans people than you have, who knows? And those books, and the trans people I have listened to, have described a worldview that is as predicated on gender stereotypes as the very conservative worldview that was prevalent in my childhood. Just the stereotypes are swapped round in trans circles.

My son, who sees himself as trans, is trying harder and harder to match feminine stereotypes, and is becoming more and more hardline in rejecting anyone he fears may have a different worldview from his. He hasn't met anyone in his wider family for well over a year; that includes those more and those less sympathetic to the idea that he is "really" a woman. Please don't tell me this is healthy behaviour. His neurodivergence has been accepted by all his family members, but now based on this one issue he is cutting himself off from people who have loved him throughout his life. Tell me how he is not in the grip of a ... oh dear, that word is censored on here.

Previously he has been happy to discuss any religious or political idea with me. Now I am cut off because I don't believe in his worldview. This is a result of dangerous manipulation, and it is devastating to parents and siblings, or to wives and children, but none of us count for anything if we do not toe the ideological "progressive" line that is fed to us, that transgender people are the most marginalised and deserving of all.

Apologies for the rant. I am in permanent mourning until this ... loses its grip on society. You do not have to agree with me, but neither do I have to agree with you, and nor should I be pressured into agreeing with my son, any more than he has to agree with me. We used to be able to disagree and still have a good relationship. Why is it different this time? Why are questions not permitted?

Perhaps I should have qualified that by saying “some posters”, or “a minority of posters”, but I’ve seen it happen a couple of times now. Just one comment per thread, but enough that I’ve noticed it.

I know some posters on AIBU think everyone’s arsehole DH is autistic until proven otherwise, so perhaps it’s just that I’m seeing.

Thank you for sharing that @Batgin and I'm so sorry.
I believe that in addition to all mental health co morbidities, what little data that was kept about these children showed that those with a history of abuse, parents as sex offenders and shamefully, children in the care of the state are statistically over represented amongst the cohort of children thinking their bodies are wrong.
I know that certain trans activist groups and individuals very early on, chose to target the care system (foster carers, children's homes and the children in them) - shame on them.
I find it hard to restrain my contempt for those adults who targeted some of the most vulnerable children in society, alienated from their families and with few adults to stand up for them.

Absolutely agree OP. And would add that it sounds like you are an absolutely amazing parent. Your daughter is lucky to have you x

I haven't read the full thread - so sorry if someone has also mentioned this, but I also worry about abuse going unnoticed due to this (in a wider sense, not your DD).

I was very much a tomboy, but on top of that I also refused to wear dresses, look 'pretty' I'd cut my own hair so it wasn't long, wear baggy clothes and try and supress my breast - not because I was trans (I'm the most girly girl as a grown up now I feel safe) or a tomboy - there were times I was desperate to wear a dress but didn't as I didn't feel safe. And this stemmed from being sexually abused by my father.

Sadly it wasn't picked up (long story) - but I'd be even more worred that behaviours that can be a sign of abuse, would be brushed aside as being 'trans' now.

The latter are similar in many ways to the girls who are identifying out of girlhood: many will be autistic and/or likely to grow up gay and are confused and distressed about what "being a girl/woman" or "being a boy/man" means. If feelings of sexuality come in to it, it's more likely to be a desire to repress an emerging same-sex attraction because they are scared that this is "not normal" (i.e. an internalised homophobia). The prevalent use of "gay" as a slur in primary and secondary schools perpetuates this. Some will have experienced some kind of trauma (bullying, sexual assault) or mental health issues relating to trauma which mean that identifying as something new or different is an attractive proposition. Particularly if their new identity is celebrated by others.

This by @BonfireLady - and I'd add that ableism added to the difficulties my ND kids faced, not just external but also internalised ableism. Its no wonder my autistic daughter was tempted by by a new and alternative way of identifying. She's now comfortable and self accepting as an autistic young woman but adolescence was difficult.

I do know what you mean that it can seem harder for a boy to be gender non conforming. A boy with long hair, who likes wearing princess dresses on occasion, or plays with a doll, should be unremarkable. But I sometimes wonder if our fears of what others might say are justified. Our school had a dressing up box for all kids, and the boys wore frocks and literally nobody cared.

I'm amazed we got as far down the thread as we did before a TRA came galumphing in to "educate" us and berate us for not "being kind" (which, lest we forget is "the first rule of life" )

Just in case our new friend comes back with their hearts and flags, it is not "kind" to allow a child to think they're in the wrong body, no-one is. It is not "kind" to allow a child to think they can change sex, no-one can. And it is not "kind" to demand that others go along with this Emperor's New Clothes bullshit.

Sometimes the kindest thing is to say "no".

A bit of that, yes. There are various things driving it.

I’m also not a huge fan of the trend for posters on here to suggest that any girl with good maths or visuospatial skills, or who just likes playing football FFS, has autism. It is yet another way of saying girls who excel at non-girly things aren’t “normal”.

?

Obviously not every girl who likes football or is good at maths etc has autism. And not every autistic girl excels at either of these. It's a false equivalence.

Spent my teens surrounded by a load of very sexist boys who couldn’t cope with me being cleverer than them, who insisted it was “unnatural” for a girl to be competent at anything. I had a female classmate tell me that “I’d never get a boyfriend if I kept answering questions in class, I should giggle more and pretend I didn’t know”. This girl wasn’t stupid (we had some single-sex lessons), but she knew she had to pretend to be if she wanted the boys to accept her.

Luckily I was aware of feminism, and knew this was all patriarchal rubbish. I worry that feminism is now seen as a dirty word, and girls are encouraged to think they might be transgender if they are too practical and not prepared to simper enough. We have gone back to the Roman concept of “unnatural” behaviour for a woman.

I’m also not a huge fan of the trend for posters on here to suggest that any girl with good maths or visuospatial skills, or who just likes playing football FFS, has autism. It is yet another way of saying girls who excel at non-girly things aren’t “normal”.

I know. It's so bizarre. It feels like progress was finally being made and then we have taken so many steps back it's unbelievable. I talk to my kids about the differences between sex and gender and they don't get it as nobody else refers to biological sex anymore.

I would be asking how women’s rights are being taught in secondary schools. As far as I know they cover the suffragette movement and that general era, but beyond that what else is being taught? What current affairs are being discussed when it comes to feminism? I doubt much at all, although if anyone knows more do let me know.

One term I particularly loathe is ‘cisgender’.