To think we’ve got it wrong about gender identity in children

I wanted to be a boy when I was that age - I have my passport photo to prove it! On one holiday with my grandparents I convinced everyone I was a boy at the campsite and they totally bought it.

The truth was that I liked football, pokemon, computer games and all my friends were boys. Society told me those things were for boys.

An acquaintance I know with a transgender child gets so angry about shops stopping saying clothes are for boys or girls as she says that having boys and girls clothing helps her child affirm their gender. I have the opposite view tbh, why place a label on things?

Yes, I still remember the dressing down my mum gave to my dad when he said "Girls can't play football."

It's weird, he did all the trainspotting stuff with me and taught me to throw and catch and to athletics club with him and so on. But football was a bridge too far.

I was very much what was called a tomboy (born '69) - hated dresses and anything 'girlie'. I was also quiet, quite introverted and bookish. Loved trains and guns, hated dolls. My Mum wanted a feminine, sociable, girly girl and didn't quite know what to do with me 😂 I know she was embarrassed by the short haired, muddy, definitely not pretty daughter she ended up with, and i honestly think if she could have explained me away as being 'in the wrong body' and in need of fixing, she would've done.

I'm still quite introverted and bookish, and i'm sitting typing this in jeans, DMs, a shirt from M&S menswear and sporting a no.2 shaved short back 'n sides haircut. I'm also still muddy 😄 (blame my dog). I'm also wearing make up. I have 3 children, born in my 30s as i was convinced as a young woman i didn't want children.

In short, i've been able to evolve into my adult self, and remain true to my core self, without the 'positive affirmation' forced on so many gnc children now, which - thanks to the Cass review - we kmow isn't a neutral act. It's sobering to think if I'd been born 40 odd years later, my personality may have seen adults set me on a path of lifelong hormone treatment and sterility, to make my body match societal sex stereotypes.

We are failing both boys and girls - and it particularly affects those who are gay and/or have autism - by regressing to these archaic notions of what being male and female should mean.

100% agree.

As a child, I was adamant I wanted to be a boy called Joe. Furious if anyone used my actual (girl) name. Only wore boys clothes, liked boyish activities & toys etc. very much a tomboy.

Over teen years grew out of it & am now a fairly "girly girl". Definitely not a tomboy, at least.

To think that what was a normal, experimental process (& I think a bit of hero worshipping my older brother!) would now be interfered with & I potentially could have been encouraged into a path of no return is SO scary.

If the puberty blocker / social transition route had been available to me then, I would've begged my parents for it.

Now happily married to a man & pregnant. Makes me so angry that could've been taken away from me because of a childish phase

Gender woo has no place in schools, except a brief discussion alongside religious faith in PSE type classes. I would like to see much more emphasis on learning about disability in schools. I was never taught not to pet a guide dog, for example.

I agree wholeheartedly OP. My son (14) has ASD - his favourite colour is pink and he has an unhealthy obsession with Squishmallows. He knows this doesn't make him any less of a boy than his friend who lives and breathes football and rugby.

My FIL once referred to DS2 (who is more rough-and-tumble) as 'a proper boy' - he got very short shrift from me 🤬

That was me till 15 and discovered sex - nothing wrong with being a Tom boy - puts you in good stead - I can climb a tree play most sports and stand up for myself against anyone better than most of my female friends-

I'm a Gen X, born in the late 60s, and am eternally grateful to have missed all this madness.

I too was a tomboy: short hair, football season ticket, dislike of dresses, gender neutral name and all that stuff. Today I'm a grown up tomboy (sort of): shaved head, football season ticket, trousers, no makeup gender neutral name. But ..... I have 27 dresses, Kurt Geiger heels and pretty pink finger nails.

I would have hated to have been persuaded that I was really male. I wasn't. I never will be.

Just for the stats, I'm neuro typical, not autistic, have completely robust mental health and am heterosexual.

My name is Lucy Jordon. And I am a woman ☺️

I'm intrigued about what singles out gender as something you can choose or self identify.

I'm about the height of a 10 year old....but I can't identify as a 10 year old, play on their sports teams, or join scouts or guides, use their changing rooms and tell everyone else (and expect them to accept) that I'm 10.

Ditto height, race etc

I agree.
There are genuine trans people but majority of people confused are tomboys or male equivalent.
Dd 12 is tomboy. Likes minecraft and roblox. She was friends with mainly girls till 7 then only 1 boy.
But none of the other boys accepted her. 0 party invites from the wider group. Now at secondary they are scared of her, she is clever and good at maths.

Whilst the school seems to try to be gender neutral with girls doing football and rugby. Its not many lessons, not enough to bother getting tge kit really. And competitions incl sports days are netball only.

In primary ive seen other boys trying to just be friends woth girls but often arent fully accepted.

I am also curious to hear what the 6% have to say on this.

100% correct.

But having this view makes you a huge transphobic bigoted bully who is responsible for twenty billion suicides and is firmly on the wrong side of history.

Can you expand on this? I’m not clear on what issue you have with the quoted section.

I was born late 60s, was a tomboy to very conservative parents who very much brought us up in sex stereotypes so my brother was brought up to go out to work i was brought up to be a housewife. It seriously screwed me up. I would have transitioned to escape but I didn't need to, I just needed to know i could do anything I wanted. I'm an adult with children both adult and younger. I worry about the youngest, I can see the difference simply in that she's far more accepting of sex stereotypes despite that not being her family experience. Next couple of years are going to be key. I've spent the last few years reinforcing the girls can do anything while also tackling patriarchy so hopefully we can survive.

OP everything you say is self-evident common sense & I am heartened by the pretty much unilateral support you have received on this thread (I confess to skimming).

How did we get to the ridiculous place we are now where perfectly perfect children are being told they are somehow wrong or malfunctioning if they don't conform to outdated stereotypes.

I was an 80s child. I attended school in the days that girls were not allowed to wear trousers . Play rugby etc

Now don't get me wring I hated it. Many girls did. We all thought it was unfair etc. But no one reacted the way people react now. There was no crying about identities and how wearing skirts made them want to hurt/kill themselves.

And we certainly were not tripping over the bodies of children who couldn't cope not being able to wear the " right" clothes.

Why are we teaching kids to be so dependent on others for their self worth/identity. Why are we telling them that they will be depressed and kill themselves if they can't do everything they want all the time. However do we think they will cope in the world after school when tbey have to follow rules, meet targets, dress a certain way fir jobs etc

YANBU - My oldest son loved pink, abd barbies and dressing up when he was little. He's now a strapping 17 year old who loves his motorbike and sports. I just let him be himself at all stages and embraced all stages. All children need is love and acceptance.

Information about Pop ‘n’ Olly here. Should not be in schools in my view.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/dorset-ideological-capture/

Yes, quite. When I was little I was very traditionally girly in some ways, I always wanted to wear skirts and dresses and as much pink as possible. But I also liked things that were traditionally more for boys like playing football and cricket, and trains and cars. I wonder how that would be treated now- that I was confused what gender I identified as than that I just liked a wide range of things which were ok whether you were a boy or a girl? It seems to be reinforcing gender stereotypes. Oddly enough I have gone into quite a male dominated area of work and still like football. But I wore a pink sequinned dress and silver platform sandals to the summer party!

Girls like your daughter have always existed. They traditionally grow up to be strong, determined and successful women.

Absolutely OP. I too was a girl with short hair who preferred boy activities and clothes.

I still find men easier. Only ever house shared with men as a student, never been on a hen do, been a bridesmaid, had my nails done etc, etc.

But I am a woman and a mother.

I never really thought about it too much. I just got on with it.

Still today I couldn't think of anything worse than a spa day or getting dressed up for ladies day. I'd rather pitch a tent or climb a mountain. But that has everything to do with my personality and interests and bugger all to do with my sex (or gender whatever that is).

It’s nothing new, Enid Blyton, bless her, characterised it in the character of George in the Famous Five books of the 1950s. Feisty George hated all the silly homemaking crap that the soppy Anne liked - she wanted the adventure and the rough and tumble like the boys.

The narrative back then was that she was a ‘tomboy’. Blyton’s characterisation acknowledged the anger and the frustration of George being held back by gender stereotyping but it was fine. It was normal and she was heroic. I’m sure lots of girls read those books and related.

We just need alternative and healthy narratives that fit our children.

And transing them isn’t it.

It really wouldn't

You are definitely not alone In thinking all that you do!! I agree and thousands of others do aswell if not millions of others. I think you were right to opt out of the workshop and I would ask school for any future workshops or similar content to be notified well in advance and id pull out of all of it. Even if my child was adamant they weren’t sure they were the gender they were I would STILL keep them away from any of this to every extent I could. Best of luck to you. X

I agreed with everything you wrote and applauded all that you have done for your daughter and to uphold respect for the status of girls and women until:

"Shouldn’t we stop promoting a trans ideology and instead be telling children that they can be whoever they want to be regardless of their biological sex?"

To me, that seems contradictory and encapsulates the thinking that lies behind the problem of children being led and confused.