How likely are PIP vouchers now labour are in?

This wasn't the Tories' first attempt at screwing over PIP recipients. The idea of providing one-off awards of items such as perching stools, bath boards, toilet frames etc. was floated a few years back and was incredibly unpopular with disability support groups (I had the 'pleasure' of working on PIP at the time).
I sincerely hope that Labour don't continue this nonsense voucher idea. How dare anyone try to dictate how a person spends their entitlement, as if they know better what people need. Bastards.

Before 2010, everyone got awarded DLA. PIP was brought in and designed to be incredibly difficult to get for 'working age' people. Children still get DLA.

I don't see Labour cutting PIP or replacing it.

I think though this should make you appreciate the scale of the dependency on benefits in this country, rather than simply assuming any party who doesn’t want to extend them are ableist. Labour are inherently a party of the welfare state, if they’re rowing back on it then you know there is a major issue. I don’t get why posters can’t see this? The figures are frankly scary.

The irony is that Labour started the dismantling of mental health seevice under the last Labour government, twice I was redeployed due cuts under in a 12 month period, during 2005-2006 in the huge mental health Trust that i worked for

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Do you believe that Labour are not going to reduce PIP payments/replace it with another type of scheme in trying to discourage people from claiming it?

That's ESA or UC. Nothing to do with PIP

I know that it’s not means tested, but there are people who work less or not at all due to disability (and I’m not saying that in a negative way). The Tories had started upping expectations of working hours and reducing benefit output. I don’t believe that Labour will put that aside.

Labour have said that their plan is to help people get better so they can work if they are able to. There are a lot of sick and mentally unwell people out there who are unable to work because of long NHS waiting lists. And because the Tories have dismantled mental health support (because in their eyes it's for weak people).

I don't like forced inclusion of disabled children into mainstream - I was against it under New Labour too because it often looked like the child being physically in the classroom but not true inclusion. It is not appropriate unless the resources are there to support the children.

I’m not sure that the benefits system was actually that tight under the Tories, it’s the cost of living that just took more away than was given. But if you lived in certain difficulties, benefits were not exactly hard to obtain under the previous government either (though the PIP system has shown itself to be horrific for some, I do not disagree).

Well they need to rethink inclusivity than as the current system is very hit and and miss
My son has very complex disabilities and has gone to a special school since he was in reception. ,he's in year 9 now thees absolutely no way he could have been managed in a mainstream school and nor would I have wanted him in one
We are luckier than most LEA,s as we have four special needs schools ,two primary and two secondary and several ASD hubs
But it's not enough .

PIP has nothing to do with work. And many can only work because they get pip. (Car through Motability, etc)

That's because the consultation launched under the Tories is still open. None of it is Labour policy suggestions as yet, given they have only been in power less than a week!

I think Labour will kick the consultation into.the long grass.

Labour are not the saviours of the disabled now the Tories are gone by a long shot. It was a key reason I was (and still am) very wary about them now being in government. Labour have made it very clear they want to encourage people into work as much as possible - snipping PIP in some manner would absolutely be part of that. As for their sen inclusion manifesto, I’m yet to see how it’s not all words and no action, because even the words just seem like unreseached soundbites to me.

🙄🙄

I can’t see it. Vouchers are expensive to administer, and often ineffective.

The focus from Labour seems more about getting more younger people into work, and slashing the ESA/UC bill.

Got what? Are you talking about pip or LCW/WRA?

As a disabled person I have just completed a government issue survey ref pip reform and it mentions vouchers several times.
It also talks about other schemes such as a catalogue for aids and services so it is definitely still being discussed.

Ds1 heard about the voucher proposal and asked hopefully if I thought he might get hmv vouchers instead of PIP! 😂 The optimism of youth! ‘Sod petrol mum, I’m getting some vinyl’

Vouchers are extremely unlikely for a number of reasons, it would be tied up in courts forever and be appalling optics for the new, kinder politics Kier Starmer is trying to usher in. Like many of the later tory policies it's imported from the US which has a very different attitude to 'welfare' in general.

Labour have made it clear their primary worry is the escalating number of young people 'checking out' of the system and this is where the initial focus will probably go. They certainly do not want to continue the previous administration's campaign of hatred towards the most vulnerable in society.

Equally, the terrible ATOS/CAPITA administered 'assessments' which stripped support from so many came in under Blair, and any government will have to do something about the ballooning bill.

If I Were Labour, I would be looking to see the costings , they need too save money and it could be a way to cut cost of thoses who really won't need the help.

After all right now it is if you got it before 2017 your paid, after you get nothing and it is quiet a bit extra a month.

Quite, I couldn't agree more with all of this.

The whole move was to give people cash rather than providing services. The idea that you give the a voucher is just time wasting. Provide the services for free again or let people pay for what they want.

I don’t think it will happen. Disability bashing was more of a reelection arseholery. It won’t save the country money to provide vouchers and contrary to popular belief disability benefits aren’t massively abused. My own opinion is that there is a lot of poor provision for disabled children and that’s what should be addressed first but nobody gives a crap about reality.

Watching this with a sense of unease.

My daughter is only 5 now so on DLA rather than PIP currently.

Labour have already said they're pushing for "inclusivity" in mainstream schools and reserving specialist provision for only the most complex so it wouldn't surprise me if they try to pull something here with PIP.

people often seem to confuse PIP with things like LCR - which is an extra payment for UC, and can be signed off by a 'sick note' fr a better term, even though I hate that expression

Obviously not as simple as that - but by linking the two in the public's mind, many people can be riled up in arms at the benefit bill, assuming PIP recipients are workshy scroungers faking illness.

That rhetoric was played large during the voucher scheme proposal

PIP is generally (and I say 'generally' because there are always loopholers) very tricky to get.

PIP is not means tested, and PIP often assists disabled people to be able to work, although understandable many others simply cannot access work, or are not in any position to.

PIP often gets taken to tribunal and a rejection overturned, because the previous government put targets on it to decrease the bill, despite it having an exceedingly low fraud rate - this costs the treasury far more in the long run, and takes up a huge amount of time and effort.

For long term disabilities or progressive illnesses I do think that the system needs overturning - a return to the lifetime awards that were previously awarded with DLA. Alot of additional MH issues are caused by the process itself, when those people are never going to get better, but are constantly frightened that anything they attempt (even if they fail) will be used as an excuse to strip them of their support. There should be a list of conditions, regularly reviewed, for which it is lifetime eligible

PIP awarded for MH issues, or for disabilities that are dragging on and on because of delays/lack of access to NHS care will hopefully be improved by the government tackling the NHS. To get PIP the condition needs to be longterm and proven by medical records to be longterm.

LCW/LCWRA is means tested. It can be a longterm grading on UC for those too unwell to ever work (so yes, some PIP recipients will get this as well) but also as a stand alone benefit for sickness that stops you being able to work in the short term. Again, a huge amount is directly related to lack of access to NHS services - be that waiting lists for treatment, or MH therapy, or as a MH problem driven directly by poverty. Again, get NHS up and functioning properly, alot of the knock on effect of this will improve. To get these two benefits you still need input from an outside source - a sick note from the DR or evidence of a short/longterm condition.

Vouchers was only ever a nod to the demographic who think that the whole country is full of scrounging workshy fakers, who are being given money to do nothing. They would have been meaningless for the majority of PIP recipients, especially as the capacity in the NHS wasnt there. To be honest it felt to me more like another ponzi Tory scheme to allow some mates to set up another agency to manage the vouchers and cream some more profit out of the country at the expense of those who can least afford it.