Why do a lot of men seem to think it's 1954 not 2024?

Dh and I are in our 60's and have always shared household tasks and childcare. Both our fathers did as well. Our own ds's share the household tasks with their partners and ds1 also has an equal role in the care of his children. DS and ddil work shifts so childcare is shared between them with my dh picking it up on the days when they both work. I don't think our family is especially unusual. I do think that despite complaining about the little that men do , too many women fail to realise that they allow that to happen, either by doing everything for their sons, or by accepting their partners unwillingness to be an equal partner.

Since he earns more he can hire a cleaner, sitter and massages for you

Don’t assume you have no power here. There are reasons he keeps you around. You make his life better.

I’m in the same situation, trapped. I’m going to train him until I dump his arse. He doesn’t listen, every benefit I provide goes. It’s also recommended to have something over these men so they behave. Read into that what you will.

You have to play by their rules and they have none.

Ain't that that truth?

We're taught to fear being single, in case we're seen as a dried-up old spinster. Society has always seemed to have an issue with independent women.

But in reality there is research that shows that women are happier when single, it's men who aren't. So it's in men's/a patriarchal society's interest to ensure women accept what ever relationship comes their way and puts up with it.

And yet there's been thread after thread on here of women saying they've come out of a long term relationship/marriage and opted to stay single (me included!) and even more who say "I love my DH but if he wasn't here I wouldn't want to be in a relationship again".

That is astounding. Oh it makes me so mad that we still have so far to go. As women we were sold the idea that you can have it all (all meaning equality). Yes you can have it all but you have to be really savvy and smart and fight for it at every turn.

And it's often such a micro aggression thing, like you have to write down the many micro ways it happens in order to keep track of what is happening and not be utterly fobbed off by people who don't realise they are perpetuating the oppression.

You are either actively aware or you are perpetuating it, that's my opinion.

I do often wonder why people marry them stay with them.My son has been brought up to do his share but not one of his friends has been -they are all little princes. This makes them really tiresome to be with as they struggle to perform basic tasks .i have at some pretty bad rows with my son who when he was younger did not understand why he had to contribute- but he sure gets it now.

The ingrained societal sexism that still exists nowadays is so annoying and limiting.

My DH has been part-time for several years now because his job and long commute wasn't working for us as a family. I'm the (much) higher earner so it didn't make sense for me to go pt. On his days off, he does domestic chores so we can have fun at the weekend as a family and picks up ds from school, takes him to jiu-jitsu, etc.

DH also took 6 months of shared parental leave in 2017 - I went back to work when ds was 6 months old (my choice) and DH was very happy to bond with ds as a baby and is still very hands on.

But his work/manager/HR was shocked that DH even asked for shared parental leave - he seemed to be the first father in his office who even considered it. They dragged their heels about the paperwork for months, even after ds was born, and he was even told at one point that 'they would decide as a business' if he could take it (surely against the law?). Bearing in mind this is a huge national company, we were a bit surprised by the bewildered and negative reaction.

My job is reasonably flexible, which helps, but DH takes 50% of ds sick days. Every single time he asks for one, his manager asks why his wife (me) can't do it. Unbelievable.

Ive just realised I’m the default one and it hasn’t changed since the kids left home.

every morning I do the usual housework of dishwasher, washing machine (mine), pets. A quick tidy up before work

the house is a cluttered mess because I won’t do it all now. I’ll do a room a day and he moans about it. So he’s been told I’m not his service appliance but a living breathing person.

he then said but you usually do it and are now slacking well I lost it. He then tried the silent treatment and I looked at him and said oh now we’re acting like a toddler when it doesn’t go their way eh. He stormed off and flounced like a teenager well I burst out laughing at this point. He came back all huffy and I said anyone teach you about controlling your emotions, need five minutes to gather your thoughts. It went down hill from there.

I now do nowt for him and I mean nowt, thankfully I have another room to go to whilst I make plans which will be a tad difficult at my age.

Christ it crept up and he became a lazy fucker as he wasn’t when we met. He can organise work and things for his hobbies and friends but a tidy house good god no that’s someone else’s job. By the way his mother had 3 boys and everything for them and expected me to do the same and it was ingrained a bit but then I rebelled a bit late in life.

I could have written this myself! (Except we did swap and I mowed the lawn for a while and then he redesigned a part of the garden after a discussion and me saying I didn't like that idea and now I find it too awkward to get the mower out)

I notice that my DH likes doing things that other people might comment or compliment on (DIY, cooking and gardening)
This is a delicious meal, your garden looks nice, I like how you've redone the bathroom etc
None stays and comments they were glad they had clean bedding, or the toilet was clean...or notices what happens in the kitchen before or after cooking!
The summer is basically a get-out clause for doing stuff in the house because there's always stuff to do in the garden!

There is also an implicit assumption that women will mediate problems and smooth things over, and little understanding of what being a full time working woman entails.

As in, the man grew up in a household where the father worked full time and provided materially and never complained. Whereas women are expected to work full time, albeit there is slightly less pressure as there are two people contributing, but they still shoulder more of the emotional work which simply isn't seen as having any value in modern society that values productivity. But it is labour and we do it free without thanks. This wouldn't be a problem as it comes quite easily to us. But not when men aren't taking on an equal share of the house chores and the life admin. Couples have to agree lower standards at home, paid help, or everyone chipping in equally.

It's one of the reasons I've not had a family as I never wanted to give up my career, I worked hard at school and to apply myself.

Edited to add - expectation is often necessity as in middle to lower earning households with a mortgage. Or the woman just wants to retain some independence (and again partly because it takes longer these days to be able to buy a house so we aren't having kids until early 30s).

It's a lot to work out very fast - finish education, find feet in career, build relationship with partner, achieve degree of financial security, then have kids.

You can never look to your parents for how to navigate the future, only for what mistakes to avoid, and you have to learn fast. Not always easy to do without a stable family upbringing. And conversely stable family upbringings probably mean you are less likely to question what you grew up with.

Women are also conditioned through the media that relationships should look like fairy tales - but it's not an emotional decision entirely, a partner has to be an emotional and a rational decision - that is the basis of solid communication.

Because women are taught it's better to be chosen by a useless man than never be chosen at all.

The thing is, the household stuff is every day, whereas DIY is more occasional, and gardening is weather dependent, so it's not really an equal split is it? I remember having a huge argument with dh during lockdown over this. He loves gardening and the weather during lockdown was glorious. So while he was pottering outside enjoying the sunshine, I was slogging, sweaty in the house doing hoovering, washing, cooking and all the jobs he was too busy in the garden (building a bar) to do. His reaction? "Well, let's swap then! You do all the manual stuff and lifting and shifting in the garden, and I'll do the housework!" What we actually did was swap a few things around, so mowing the lawn is now mostly my job, he does a lot more cleaning and hoovering etc.

Now, this is a man who is not lazy by any stretch and certainly does his fair share generally (excepting the lockdown blip above). He does childcare drop offs and pick ups, provides cover when I'm working and the kids are sick, washes, cleans, hoovers etc. He's ex RAF which helps. And he sees when I'm run ragged and tells me to slow down and offers to do more. But there's also the mental load, remembering to do all the 'life' admin, booking appointments, planning things, birthdays etc. In most cases it's normally the woman who does all of that stuff (mental load) as well as the household chores, as well as working.

And don't even get me started on how men make work too. Example: washing. "Oh, I've put a load of washing in" he says. Then disappears. So the wash cycle finishes and now it needs drying, matching and dispatching - only he's nowhere to be seen! Mind you, perhaps this is more about living with someone who has adhd...

They expect all that and you to pay for their dinner or go 50/50
But these Barbara the builder desperado women entertain it and happily pay, so who can blame the men. Any woman with worth would not

Read this back, this is what you wrote about your husband. Do you really want to be in a relationship with such an AH.

Actually you do work. Your work is just unpaid.

Absolutely agree with what you’ve said about raising our daughters. But equally we need to raise our sons to know how to respect females (or people/partners of any gender) and know how to pull their weight - oh and actually do it!!!

I guess different families split jobs differently. My kids are older now but I’ve always been a SAHM/carer to disabled son. I do tend to do all the housework and stuff to do with kids but I’ve never done any decorating or building stuff, stuff to do with cars like services MOT’s etc, he also does the garden. It’s suited us both for 30 odd years.

This really hit home tonight. Husband had a go at me earlier for being 'stressed' and 'thinking too hard about things', maybe if he pulled his finger out and shared even an iota of the mental load- nevermind childcare, washing, cooking, shopping, cleaning..both in our 30's and we both work, but he brings in about 3 times more than I do because I've always been the default skivvy.

I don't know how to change it. I do point it out to him, and sometimes he'll buck up for a bit but then seems to deliberately do a shit job of things.

I have a good friend who has a husband who does absolutely nothing around the house. OK,he works full time and she works part time so she expects to do more than him. But I couldn't believe it when she said she asked him to put the washing machine going while she was at work and he replied 'I don't know how to'. And yes l,this is another man who's mother did EVERYTHING for himbar wiping his arse. Not that I am for one minute blaming women,but it's a fact that men get conditioned to expect women to do everything.

My ex partner suddenly became extremely lazy about doing any housework once the baby came. He started spouting weird nonsense how doing the dishes wasn't a man's job and he was resentful about doing the most minor thing like putting bins out. He would wait until it was overflowing and then just put the rubbish on the side of the bin. Once I left for a trip with the baby and came back to the same dishes in the sink 3 days later. Needless to say he did zero childcare too.

I feel proud of myself for leaving him within a year of his selfish, lazy behaviour.

And there in lies the problem: “happy to help”. By definition that says he is helping you with chores that are, by default yours. This is the thinking we have to stop. Housework is not women’s work that some men graciously help us with. It’s work that needs doing in a household and needs to be shared fairly.

My partner does his fair share of childcare and cleaning but I lead of all the decisions, I mean every single one and that mental load is draining, especially with a SEN child in the mix. I have always earned more and am the financial person, having said that he’s always been awful
with money management, even before my time. When he has been given things to arrange he messes them up. I don’t take any prisoners but I can see it’s definitely not laziness, just a complete mental block. We’ve had to compromise on our happiness to an extent to prioritise the wellbeing of our child. All in all he does ok considering he is an older dad (nearly 60). There’s no excuse for those men in their 30’s! I have lots of friends who earn less/don’t work and that seems to give their husbands carte blanche to go off on golfing weekends all the time, the subtext being they earn this through being the main wage earner. Personally I couldn’t deal with that, it’s very ‘Mad Men’
I have many more weekends away than my partner tbh.

I am this woman. I do 90% unless I have a meltdown. Twice a year maybe when everything gets too much. I don't enable, I say what I think- but it doesn't get me anywhere. I can't leave- would have nowhere to go and couldn't leave my dog. 1 day maybe. Sometimes people are stuck and hate how they live. Some of us are just trying to get by and I'd rather not do that living in a shit tip and microwave meals.

One of the biggest annoyances complete piece of utter fuckwittery is when you lose your rag with some twat of a bloke and he tells your husband to control you. I have two pieces of advice for antediluvian cunts like this:

1. Join the 21st century
2. Prepare to die