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To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

667 replies

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 16:13

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

OP posts:
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BeachParty · 09/07/2024 18:04

OldTinHat · 09/07/2024 18:02

Don't feed the bear...

Maybe try keeping a hold of your old tin foil hat instead of trying to presumably troll hunt ... 🙄

OP posts:
MsLavender · 09/07/2024 18:03

I disagree that it's controversial. I think for the past 30+ years all anyone has talked about is how evil white people are (white guilt/white tears). I'd say it's far more controversial to mention that other races have been just as "evil", if not more so, than white people. However, I don't think it does much good to talk about generalisations about groups of people at all, if we talk about the Mongolian empire I'm sure many Mongolians suffered just as much as anyone else during that period. Thinking of the atrocities in China being inflicted on Muslims in camps at this very moment, no one really blames ALL Asians or even ALL Chinese people surely? Critical Race Theory has, in my opinion, taken race relations right back.

OldTinHat · 09/07/2024 18:02

Don't feed the bear...

Mummy2024 · 09/07/2024 18:02

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 16:13

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

It's racist because your bringing skin colour into it.... people didn't do these things merely because they were white... the Romans took over just about every bit of land they touched. They did it because they were colonial not white.

No one is excusing what has been done to various people by colonialists but....

At the same time how long are "white people" meant to carry this colonial badge of shame?

We didn't enslave anybody at all, the people who did are long dead. The lesson is important and therefore it is important it is passed down in history but what is not ok is to say it's because they were "white" it's stereotyping and quite frankly untrue.

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 17:58

Discussion where everyone agrees with you is what's called an echo chamber. Surely you should want alternative opinions to bounce off?

I don't want an echo chamber, I like reading other views as well.
There's some interesting, thought provoking posts buried in the posts.

OP posts:
MonsteraMama · 09/07/2024 17:52

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 17:42

Yes, some of the comments are just kind of proving the point lol (and others are actually thought provoking and interesting)
Trying to ignore the "whataboutery" posts and the "I'm all ears, I'm waiting!" 🙄😁

People are saying "I'm waiting" because you have thus far failed to actually answer any questions about your view. If you're going to post goady, inflammatory threads about anything race related, the least you could do is have the actual data, knowledge and understanding of what you're posting about to engage in the discussion you wanted to have. So far you only seem interested in engaging with people who mindlessly agree with you?

Discussion where everyone agrees with you is what's called an echo chamber. Surely you should want alternative opinions to bounce off?

DazedNotConfused1 · 09/07/2024 17:51

What race are you OP?

ATenShun · 09/07/2024 17:48

Ihopeithinkiknow · 09/07/2024 17:39

Well this went well lol a lot of outrage on what was only a bloody question but no of course let's all jump to "but what about other races doing it" or "you are clearly racist" looks like a lot of "how dare you bring it up" to me lol I'm white btw before anyone starts thinking I'm being racist towards my own race. It's fucking ridiculous on here sometimes

Here is an update quote from the OP to what she wishes to discuss.
I was hoping for a discussion about stuff like how why can't we discuss how people who are white have oppressed/oppress people who are black in the past

It is discussed and debated numerous times and in numerous places daily. Online forums like this, Education establishments, Religious places etc etc.
It is universally agreed that some white people persecuted some black people. So I suppose the simplest answer to the OP would be, it is discussed and your claim is false.

Differentstarts · 09/07/2024 17:47

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 17:42

Yes, some of the comments are just kind of proving the point lol (and others are actually thought provoking and interesting)
Trying to ignore the "whataboutery" posts and the "I'm all ears, I'm waiting!" 🙄😁

It's very hard to comment on your post as unfortunately white people don't have the privilege that other races have of open speech. Like if a white person said black behaviour in the context you used we would be blocked and banned from mumsnet

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 17:47

Differentstarts · 09/07/2024 17:44

If you feel this way I suggest you give op a massive apology for your white behaviour and for oppressing her as this is what the op has stated

🙄

OP posts:
Differentstarts · 09/07/2024 17:44

Ihopeithinkiknow · 09/07/2024 17:39

Well this went well lol a lot of outrage on what was only a bloody question but no of course let's all jump to "but what about other races doing it" or "you are clearly racist" looks like a lot of "how dare you bring it up" to me lol I'm white btw before anyone starts thinking I'm being racist towards my own race. It's fucking ridiculous on here sometimes

If you feel this way I suggest you give op a massive apology for your white behaviour and for oppressing her as this is what the op has stated

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 17:42

Ihopeithinkiknow · 09/07/2024 17:39

Well this went well lol a lot of outrage on what was only a bloody question but no of course let's all jump to "but what about other races doing it" or "you are clearly racist" looks like a lot of "how dare you bring it up" to me lol I'm white btw before anyone starts thinking I'm being racist towards my own race. It's fucking ridiculous on here sometimes

Yes, some of the comments are just kind of proving the point lol (and others are actually thought provoking and interesting)
Trying to ignore the "whataboutery" posts and the "I'm all ears, I'm waiting!" 🙄😁

OP posts:
cupcaske123 · 09/07/2024 17:41

Ihopeithinkiknow · 09/07/2024 17:39

Well this went well lol a lot of outrage on what was only a bloody question but no of course let's all jump to "but what about other races doing it" or "you are clearly racist" looks like a lot of "how dare you bring it up" to me lol I'm white btw before anyone starts thinking I'm being racist towards my own race. It's fucking ridiculous on here sometimes

Maybe you can enlighten us. What is white behaviour?

Ihopeithinkiknow · 09/07/2024 17:39

Well this went well lol a lot of outrage on what was only a bloody question but no of course let's all jump to "but what about other races doing it" or "you are clearly racist" looks like a lot of "how dare you bring it up" to me lol I'm white btw before anyone starts thinking I'm being racist towards my own race. It's fucking ridiculous on here sometimes

Opinionwontchangeluv · 09/07/2024 17:33

cupcaske123 · 09/07/2024 16:19

People of all races have committed atrocities OP. Rwanda, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Cambodia, East Timor, China, Myanmar...it's not just a "white" thing.

Agree and I'm non white.
The things done to children and animals in those countries till this day, special places in hell and that.

MonsteraMama · 09/07/2024 17:32

Still patiently waiting for OP to actually define White Behaviour. Both in a modern context and in the context of historical behaviours.

Can't wait. Ready to be educated 🤓

HoppityBun · 09/07/2024 17:31

DinnaeFashYersel · 09/07/2024 16:34

I've done my family tree.

My forebears were illiterate farm workers and domestic servants.

They were oppressed. They weren't oppressing anyone.

What about their 'white behaviour'?

I think this is particularly important. I’ve read that the people who made money in the 18th and 19th century still have that wealth now. People didn’t benefit if they were agricultural workers, or working in the cotton mills, or press ganged, or bought when little and sent up chimneys. There was mass unemployment and poverty after Waterloo when there were no more wars to be fought and a series of disastrous harvests. Doesn’t it make more sense to stand up for the poor, of all colours? There’s more inequality now than any time since the mid 18th century. That’s what should be discussed, imv. I’m tempted to give my racial credentials but I really want to emphasise the misery that poverty has always endured

RubySloth · 09/07/2024 17:26

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 16:30

I was hoping for a discussion about stuff like how why can't we discuss how people who are white have oppressed/oppress people who are black in the past (an example of white behaviour someone asked for) but if people cant even understand that "black and white behaviour" just isn't comparable it seemed rather fruitless.
Hence the bloody hell response.

It's not behaviour, it's class. You don't think black or Asians oppress their own people and trade/sell people- or is that allowed. Look at who abolished slavery and where it is still going on.

I often think of white privilege when I see children working in the mills or stuck inside a chimney and left to die.

SwordToFlamethrower · 09/07/2024 17:25

It isn't?

ATenShun · 09/07/2024 17:24

londonmummy1966 · 09/07/2024 17:19

I phrased it the way I did as I am aware that there is a different system in Scotland that I am not that familiar with.

And I am Welsh so actually think that Edward I was a monster..............

I know you meant no offence. What I was highlighting is how easy it is to 'offend' some people where a degree of rationality would show it was a non offensive comment.

NormalAuntFanny · 09/07/2024 17:24

If you look at the sweep of recorded history, it is only 'white' history from about the early modern period and even then if things had gone a bit differently the world might have been dominated by some Indian nation, or an Arab dynasty or the Mongols.

Anyone who thinks white people have some especial cruelty, urge to conquer, enslave, pillage the earth etc just doesn't know anything about history or humanity and doesn't want to.

Similarly if you think history teaching is white then you probably haven't experienced any in the last 30 years.

Pick up a bog standard history of that most white of modern history subjects, WW2 and there'll be chapters on China, Africa, colonialism, racism etc etc.

I don't think anyone, apart from fuckwits like farage is whitewashing anything and to be honest goady reverse racism is pretty tedious too.

Luminousalumnus · 09/07/2024 17:21

BeachParty · 09/07/2024 16:23

"White behaviour" is not comparable to black or Asian behaviour.
Bloody hell

Sorry, why is it not comparable? Or do you only want to consider very recent history?
Even if you do, how can dismiss modern slavery in say UEA or China?
The universal truth seems to be that people in power do crap things to people not in power.

londonmummy1966 · 09/07/2024 17:19

ATenShun · 09/07/2024 17:10

Well I object to your blatant exclusion of my Country in your above statement. As the syllabus in all of the UK is largely similar in Scotland, Wales, N Ireland. You should really of said the British education system.
See what I did there, we can allege discrimination, racism etc into many things where there was never an intention to offend.

The reality with teaching history is there is a shed load of it. More being created every day. There are only so many teaching hours in a year, throw in all the other subjects, and of course history teachers can only teach a tiny fraction of what is out there.

I phrased it the way I did as I am aware that there is a different system in Scotland that I am not that familiar with.

And I am Welsh so actually think that Edward I was a monster..............

orchiddottyback · 09/07/2024 17:18

So OP why are you not as vested in the Oriental parts of the British Empire and all that happened there or do they not provide the platform you are pushing for? They are neither black nor white, perhaps they should have a voice also.

Would you like to discuss the white behaviour of children like this, many lived very miserable existences and were maimed and killed with little regard. 🤔

To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?
AzureAnt · 09/07/2024 17:18

MorningCoffeeBreak · 09/07/2024 17:13

It’s interesting that you want to talk about past “white behaviour” and not the current “(insert race) behaviour” leading to millions living in slavery today. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century

Aye but it only counts when Whites are doing it doesn't it
Everything else is conveniently not mernrioned