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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To worry that this is a major threat to our democracy?

110 replies

Worrydon · 09/07/2024 14:23

https://themuslimvote.co.uk/.

Ever since learning about the targeted campaign of threats and harassment against MP Jess Phillips, it has become clear that those harassing her, along with other similar independent MPs are being pushed into power by sectarian politics.

many of these independent MPs have gotten in purely off the back of being pro-Gaza, despite not offering any solutions to local issues. Our MPs should represent local and national interests, not exclusively one foreign agenda piece.

This website (the Muslim Vote) encourages people to put in their post code, and it then tells you who to vote for based entirely off their stance on Gaza.

This appears to be allowing religion and sectarianism to corrupt our democracy, and I worry that not enough attention is being paid to this threat.

The Muslim Vote - We are Pro-Democracy and Anti-Genocide

Muslims and all people who stand for justice agree that the current political class does not represent us. Peacefully, politically, and persistently we will vote them out.

https://themuslimvote.co.uk

OP posts:
Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:18

Mummy2024 · 09/07/2024 19:12

To a point I agree with this actually and maybe something should be done to stop this, but does this website do this?

The spiritual injury bit is specifically about coercing with spiritual threats so yeah. Repealing that would logically mean it would allow priests to just that.

https://lawandreligionuk.com/2024/05/08/spiritual-influence-and-elections-an-update/

that may help.

It’s basically never used but that doesn’t mean it won’t become important at some point. And if it’s not a big deal why bother writing about it in your manifesto? Theres a reason it’s included.

“Spiritual influence” and elections – an update | Law & Religion UK

https://lawandreligionuk.com/2024/05/08/spiritual-influence-and-elections-an-update

HappierTimesAhead · 09/07/2024 19:18

Danceinthenight · 09/07/2024 19:01

Let me rephrase that. This is a Christian country. It’s not in the countries best interest to allow Muslims who are indigenously from other countries to vote based on their religion

And it is absolutely wonderful that people like you don't get to decide how democracy works in our country 🙌

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 09/07/2024 19:17

Which part of the Representation of the People Act covers clergy preaching politics?

I think there is something in it about not placing "undue spiritual pressure" or something.

OneTC · 09/07/2024 19:17

Danceinthenight · 09/07/2024 19:01

Let me rephrase that. This is a Christian country. It’s not in the countries best interest to allow Muslims who are indigenously from other countries to vote based on their religion

Doesn't sound very democratic

user1471453601 · 09/07/2024 19:17

I'm appalled, of course, by the treatment that Jess Phillips and others suffered at the hands of these men, and they were mainly men

In the longer run, I'm more sanguine. When independent s start getting bogged down by local issues, which they will, I think their stance on Gaza or brexit, will cut much less ice..

the one independent group I would like to see prosper are the Greens. They have a universal and urgent message. And I hope it continues to resonate in this country.

that's not to say I'm not deeply moved by the situation in Gaza. of course I am, it would take a much harder heart than mine not to be. But what the UK parliament thinks about that situation isn't going to influence it in any way. We should decry it, of course, but we shouldn't think we can influence it.

I don't think the same is true of global warming. Every little bit helps, and if a western government can find a way to reduce carbon emissions without bankrupting itself, I think that will resonate.

as to reform, I'm well and truly sick of the debate about Brexit. It's happened, I may wish it hadnt, but it has. So let's not rehash those years of debate and division, and get on with making the best of a bad deal. Hearing that "well it wasn't done properly, if it had ...".what? Sunny Uplands? It reminds me so much of the shit I heard from the UK communists in the 70s telling me communism hadn't really failed "it just hasn't been done properly" .

HappierTimesAhead · 09/07/2024 19:16

There was also a website 'Get the Tories out' where you could put in your postcode and find out who to vote for to make sure the Tory candidate didn't get elected in your constituency.

YABVVU because single-issue groups will always exist with the intention of influencing government. In fact, that is democracy.

How do you not get it?

OneTC · 09/07/2024 19:16

It is democracy.

Democracy is desirable but by it's nature it doesn't always give you what you want.

Newbutoldfather · 09/07/2024 19:16

It is the flip side to Reform.

Religious ghettos in a (broadly) secular and tolerant country are unhealthy. And if they aren’t abiding by our democratic methods and principles, it becomes quite dangerous.

Anyone can vote for whomever they want for whatever reason, but that vote should be free, not coerced by the community or a religious leader.

It was terrible to see Jess Phillips heckled rather than congratulated.

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/07/2024 19:16

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:10

Is it not covered under the Representation of the People Act?

Bit silly bothering to write it down or trying to have it repealed if it doesn’t actually exist isn’t it?

Which part of the Representation of the People Act covers clergy preaching politics?

Clarabell77 · 09/07/2024 19:15

Danceinthenight · 09/07/2024 19:01

Let me rephrase that. This is a Christian country. It’s not in the countries best interest to allow Muslims who are indigenously from other countries to vote based on their religion

Next time don’t bother rephrasing, it really didn’t help you much.

Champagnesocialismo · 09/07/2024 19:14

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:12

If you look at their manifesto it very much is a “muslim vote” thing. Want parents to be able to have influence on LGBT stuff in the curriculum, want 7% of LGP to be invested in Sharia funds, want Muslims to not pay unfair insurance premiums (I don’t know what this is on about, it’s calculated by various risks) etc etc.

Whose manifesto?

Mummy2024 · 09/07/2024 19:14

Clarabell77 · 09/07/2024 19:11

These people have family and friends being obliterated off the face of the earth and we as a country are supporting the perpetrators, so no, I don’t think it’s a threat to our democracy and yes, you are being very unreasonable.

Exactly the religion actually has nothing to do with it... its about doing the right thing! It's just being said by a religious group.

Mummy2024 · 09/07/2024 19:12

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:07

I think there is a difference between someone gently urging and someone saying “god wants you to vote for x party because they want to ban teaching of LGBT issues in school otherwise you are going against gods wishes and therefore you will be damned to hell”.

To a point I agree with this actually and maybe something should be done to stop this, but does this website do this?

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:12

MammaMiaPizzeria · 09/07/2024 19:08

My biggest issue with it is that they call it "the Muslim vote" when it should be "the Gaza vote". Basically, I take issue with the implication that all Muslims should care more about Gaza than anything else. That to not have Gaza as your main voting issue would make you somehow less Muslim.

If you look at their manifesto it very much is a “muslim vote” thing. Want parents to be able to have influence on LGBT stuff in the curriculum, want 7% of LGP to be invested in Sharia funds, want Muslims to not pay unfair insurance premiums (I don’t know what this is on about, it’s calculated by various risks) etc etc.

Clarabell77 · 09/07/2024 19:11

These people have family and friends being obliterated off the face of the earth and we as a country are supporting the perpetrators, so no, I don’t think it’s a threat to our democracy and yes, you are being very unreasonable.

SonicTheHodgeheg · 09/07/2024 19:11

Lots of people vote over one issue - whether it’s “stop the boats” or “stop the Tories getting 5 more years”

Gaza isn’t a top concern for me but I would prefer the Uk not to fund Israel’s genocide of the Palestinian people.

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:10

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/07/2024 19:05

Charged with what @Chickenuggetsticks? It's not a crime.

Is it not covered under the Representation of the People Act?

Bit silly bothering to write it down or trying to have it repealed if it doesn’t actually exist isn’t it?

MammaMiaPizzeria · 09/07/2024 19:08

My biggest issue with it is that they call it "the Muslim vote" when it should be "the Gaza vote". Basically, I take issue with the implication that all Muslims should care more about Gaza than anything else. That to not have Gaza as your main voting issue would make you somehow less Muslim.

Mummy2024 · 09/07/2024 19:07

Danceinthenight · 09/07/2024 19:01

Let me rephrase that. This is a Christian country. It’s not in the countries best interest to allow Muslims who are indigenously from other countries to vote based on their religion

What if I'm not Christian do I get a vote?? How do I prove I'm British enough?

Should we also excuse Muslim people with heritage from other countries from paying tax, whether they are British or not?

You realise what your saying is encouraging the removal of right of people based on religious beliefs and is completely illegal. So we do the same to other faiths or is it just islamaphobia your suffering?

Barbadossunset · 09/07/2024 19:07

Shall we quiz people at the polling station - make sure that their rationale for voting a certain meets with your approval.

There was a thread some time ago on here in which the poster suggested that those voting in the eu referendum should be subjected to a test to see if they were well informed enough to vote. Quite a few people agreed.

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:07

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/07/2024 19:03

What do you mean by legal right? Anyone can urge anyone else to vote a certain way, including religious leaders.

I think there is a difference between someone gently urging and someone saying “god wants you to vote for x party because they want to ban teaching of LGBT issues in school otherwise you are going against gods wishes and therefore you will be damned to hell”.

Spendonsend · 09/07/2024 19:06

TeenagersAngst · 09/07/2024 18:52

There's a reason why we have separation of Church and State. Religion has no place in politics.

Erm...in England we have an Established Church.

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/07/2024 19:05

Charged with what @Chickenuggetsticks? It's not a crime.

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 19:04

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/07/2024 19:02

We had pastors in Christian churches urging a Leave vote on Brexit because it was what God wanted.🤷‍♀️

And they should have been charged for it. It’s not a good reason to try to make it legal , it’s an appalling abuse of power.

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/07/2024 19:03

Chickenuggetsticks · 09/07/2024 18:57

I think people should vote for whoever they want, it’s everyones right in a democratic nation to do so.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think some organisations/political parties shouldn’t be heavily criticised. I seriously object to anyone/any party who thinks that priests should have the legal right to instruct their congregation on how to vote.

Edited

What do you mean by legal right? Anyone can urge anyone else to vote a certain way, including religious leaders.

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