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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To like Keir Starmer?

556 replies

Emmanuelll · 09/07/2024 09:02

Unlike Tony Blair, he comes from a working class background - his siblings would still call themselves working class.

As a very bright lawyer, he could have sought a path which made him rich quickly but instead chose human rights which isn’t an easy route to take and he’s defended ‘the little guy’ against corporations. He’s also anti-death penalty.

Ok, he’s a Sir, and I’ve heard people (perhaps not unreasonably) question why the leader of the Labour Party would have a title like that. But he earned it through work for the criminal justice system.

On the face of it, it seems as though he deserves a chance.

I would much rather have him as PM than a former Bullingdon club member who used to burn money in front of homeless people for the fun of it.

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SpudleyLass · 12/07/2024 19:06

cardibach · 12/07/2024 18:56

It’s not his job to comment on the government if other countries. Would be very poor diplomacy.
mind you, wanting to kick out a democratically elected leader because you don’t personally like him isn’t very democratic either, so I guess it figures.

God I can;t believe people think dementia Joe being President of the most powerful country on Earth is ok, is absolutely terrifying.

Stand him down. Thats all the democrats have to do.

SpudleyLass · 12/07/2024 19:04

cardibach · 12/07/2024 18:56

It’s not his job to comment on the government if other countries. Would be very poor diplomacy.
mind you, wanting to kick out a democratically elected leader because you don’t personally like him isn’t very democratic either, so I guess it figures.

Given senile Joe is leader of the Free world, we should all be worried that he can't recognise Zelensky from Putin.

Don't pretend otherwise.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 12/07/2024 18:59

It’s not his job to comment on the government if other countries. Would be very poor diplomacy.

I agree, even as a non-Starmer-fan.

cardibach · 12/07/2024 18:56

SpudleyLass · 12/07/2024 18:43

So Starmer is a silly twat who just lied to everybody by saying Biden is fine.

Biden just called Zelensky, Putin and called his vice president '\trump'

When to kick out Starmer, please?

It’s not his job to comment on the government if other countries. Would be very poor diplomacy.
mind you, wanting to kick out a democratically elected leader because you don’t personally like him isn’t very democratic either, so I guess it figures.

SpudleyLass · 12/07/2024 18:43

So Starmer is a silly twat who just lied to everybody by saying Biden is fine.

Biden just called Zelensky, Putin and called his vice president '\trump'

When to kick out Starmer, please?

bluebeach · 12/07/2024 18:39

YANBU I first came to like him when I found out he defended the two environments being sued by McDonald’s in Mclibel about 25 years ago. He did it pro bono for years.

BIossomtoes · 12/07/2024 18:38

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

I don’t. I said they should be. 🤷‍♀️

coupdetonnerre · 12/07/2024 18:36

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

coupdetonnerre · 12/07/2024 18:33

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

cardibach · 12/07/2024 17:53

FinalCeleryScheme · 12/07/2024 17:20

One of the great things about the thanks function is you can catch who thanked you and then changed their minds…not you Cardibach - your thanks is appreciated - but another.

I’m not sure this is reliable - I know sometimes I like a post then when I go back to the thread it’s not there. Just a thought.

FinalCeleryScheme · 12/07/2024 17:20

One of the great things about the thanks function is you can catch who thanked you and then changed their minds…not you Cardibach - your thanks is appreciated - but another.

BIossomtoes · 12/07/2024 16:44

cardibach · 12/07/2024 16:41

Isn’t it nice to agree even if we have different views on lots of things? Discussion should be more like this.

Yes, it’s great, I wish more discussions were like it.

FinalCeleryScheme · 12/07/2024 16:43

cardibach · 12/07/2024 16:41

Isn’t it nice to agree even if we have different views on lots of things? Discussion should be more like this.

👍

cardibach · 12/07/2024 16:41

FinalCeleryScheme · 12/07/2024 16:34

Oh Lordy, despite you being a vehement Labour fan I do agree. The NHS needs more, and more influential, management. If it was run like Tescos or Wetherspoons it would be much better.

Isn’t it nice to agree even if we have different views on lots of things? Discussion should be more like this.

BIossomtoes · 12/07/2024 16:38

Champagnesocialismo · 12/07/2024 12:51

But wasn’t it the case that public satisfaction with the NHS hit a record high during Blair’s era? So in those terms and also bringing down waiting lists, it was very successful. In other words the outcome was positive.

Yes, that was absolutely the case. There’s a graph if you scroll down which I’ve tried and failed to c+p.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/reports/public-satisfaction-nhs-and-social-care-2022

FinalCeleryScheme · 12/07/2024 16:34

cardibach · 12/07/2024 16:27

I agree about good management being key. You’ll find the majority think the NHS has too much admin though (it doesn’t).

Oh Lordy, despite you being a vehement Labour fan I do agree. The NHS needs more, and more influential, management. If it was run like Tescos or Wetherspoons it would be much better.

cardibach · 12/07/2024 16:27

JassyRadlett · 12/07/2024 16:18

It's almost like diverting loads of clinical specialists to spend more of their time on admin roles might not have been the most efficient or productive way to deploy them.

I always find the idea that a system as vast and complex as the NHS doesn't need absolutely loads of admin and some really good management (which in the main it isn't willing to pay properly for) really strange. Up there with the idea that people who make great clinicians will also make great managers.

I agree about good management being key. You’ll find the majority think the NHS has too much admin though (it doesn’t).

JassyRadlett · 12/07/2024 16:18

Champagnesocialismo · 12/07/2024 12:51

But wasn’t it the case that public satisfaction with the NHS hit a record high during Blair’s era? So in those terms and also bringing down waiting lists, it was very successful. In other words the outcome was positive.

It's almost like diverting loads of clinical specialists to spend more of their time on admin roles might not have been the most efficient or productive way to deploy them.

I always find the idea that a system as vast and complex as the NHS doesn't need absolutely loads of admin and some really good management (which in the main it isn't willing to pay properly for) really strange. Up there with the idea that people who make great clinicians will also make great managers.

Champagnesocialismo · 12/07/2024 12:51

2dogsandabudgie · 12/07/2024 12:23

Their answer to the failing NHS was to just throw billions of pounds at it, but it didn't go to where it was needed most. They gave drs. a 26% pay increase plus a large rise in pensions but let them reduce their working hours. They employed pen pushers that weren't needed, in 4 years alone the NHS employed 52,000 more administrators.

Out of the £3.6 billion pledged to the NHS in 2005 just £475 million was directed towards improving treatment of patients.

But wasn’t it the case that public satisfaction with the NHS hit a record high during Blair’s era? So in those terms and also bringing down waiting lists, it was very successful. In other words the outcome was positive.

2dogsandabudgie · 12/07/2024 12:23

BIossomtoes · 12/07/2024 10:58

What were those millions of £ wasted on? The NHS worked under Blair’s government. The last lot threw money at it and made it worse.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/reports/high-performing-nhs-review-progress-1997-2010

Their answer to the failing NHS was to just throw billions of pounds at it, but it didn't go to where it was needed most. They gave drs. a 26% pay increase plus a large rise in pensions but let them reduce their working hours. They employed pen pushers that weren't needed, in 4 years alone the NHS employed 52,000 more administrators.

Out of the £3.6 billion pledged to the NHS in 2005 just £475 million was directed towards improving treatment of patients.

HRTQueen · 12/07/2024 12:20

I am aware France’s healthcare system is not free at point of service but it’s all round a far better healthcare service than we have and those on benefits and low wages are able to access healthcare

we should expect better but for too long we have been led to believe we should be thankful for the NHS

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 12/07/2024 12:15

Emmanuelll · 12/07/2024 12:03

There is no free at the point of service healthcare in France - it's not like America but you still have to have insurance.

Edited

Yes I know, I live in France. But nobody is denied healthcare because they are too poor to pay. The government provides top up insurance for people under a certain income level, and anyone who is employed is automatically enrolled into health insurance via their employer. And even then if you needed urgent medical attention they would never, ever ask for your insurance details first. It would be sorted out later. When I have been to A&E in public hospitals I have had to provide my health card (which everyone has, this is for the part covered by social security, not insurance) but was never charged anything. I once went to A&E in a private hospital needing stitches and I received a bill for about €20 six months later which my health insurance covered.

Emmanuelll · 12/07/2024 12:03

There is no free at the point of service healthcare in France - it's not like America but you still have to have insurance.

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 12/07/2024 11:50

Emmanuelll · 12/07/2024 11:10

Some people have been saying for years 'the NHS doesn't work' etc. but my experience has been that it did work fine under Blair's administration.

The alternative is something like the US has, where people die after having an accident because they needed to have an operation immediately and the surgeon wasn't willing to do the operation until the person's insurance company agreed to it.

That is most certainly is not the only alternative. That would never happen in France, for example.

HRTQueen · 12/07/2024 11:31

It was certainly better under the last Labour government but it’s wasn’t fine (I had ds at the time in my area maternity care was poor so want not just my experience)

and no the US system is not the only alternative France and Germany have superior healthcare system preventative healthcare is far more prevalent (along with personal responsibility)