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Original poster

To want to write to the governors about my DD's suspension?

265 replies

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 11:47

I'm looking for a bit of help. Last week my 12 yo DD was suspended from school for half a day. She has autism and struggles. She didn't want me to leave her and was crying and clinging to me. I tried to get her to go with a member of staff for half an hour but she wouldn't. So the head teacher had to suspend her and send her home. They said I can write a statement to the governors. Does anyone know what I need to say? Is just that it was due to her ASD?

Also if the headteacher keeps suspending her can she be expelled? This is the one and only time she has ever been suspended but it just got me worried.

OP posts:
fernfriend · 15/07/2024 12:29

Sorry if you have already answered this, but does your daughter have a My Support Plan in place?

Mumofoneandone · 15/07/2024 12:22

UndertheCedartree · 15/07/2024 12:00

Update I had a call from the LA SEND team. My request for a EHCNA has been turned down! Despite the head teacher telling me she needs an EHCP asap as this is a mainstream school and they can't meet her needs, apparently the school has told the LA they can meet her needs!!

She said that there is no proper plan for my daughter and they should be making goals, putting provision in place to meet them and assessing every 6 weeks. She said they need to see them doing that and if it still isn't working then I can apply for an EHCNA again.

She also said she should not be being suspended or excluded from trips etc. She has suggested I contact Sendiass and then arrange a meeting with them and the school and she will also attend.

Sounds like some progress is being made.....but so much other stuff happening with different agencies that doesn't seem to add up.
Good to hear a plan is being put in place - hopefully all sorted ready for the start of next year!

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 15/07/2024 12:00

Update I had a call from the LA SEND team. My request for a EHCNA has been turned down! Despite the head teacher telling me she needs an EHCP asap as this is a mainstream school and they can't meet her needs, apparently the school has told the LA they can meet her needs!!

She said that there is no proper plan for my daughter and they should be making goals, putting provision in place to meet them and assessing every 6 weeks. She said they need to see them doing that and if it still isn't working then I can apply for an EHCNA again.

She also said she should not be being suspended or excluded from trips etc. She has suggested I contact Sendiass and then arrange a meeting with them and the school and she will also attend.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 13/07/2024 20:28

Notamum12345577 · 13/07/2024 14:01

I would question the behaviour points with the head or head of year

Show quote history

I have emailed the head teacher and also the SENCo. I will be so upset if they don't remove these points. Why punish a child who is struggling due to autism? It's awful.

OP posts:
Notamum12345577 · 13/07/2024 14:01

UndertheCedartree · 11/07/2024 22:46

It really makes no sense. She's never had a behaviour point before, she's never been in trouble. And yes, as you say she's gone and represented the school - I mean she's done them a favour helping out at open evening and then they do this! It's such a kick in the teeth!

Show quote history

I would question the behaviour points with the head or head of year

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 11/07/2024 22:46

Mumofoneandone · 11/07/2024 22:34

Whilst I don't understand how the behaviour points system works, I can't get my head around the school!
They are suspending her but then think she's suitable for representing the school at an open evening?
I am not surprised you are in tears - your DD has clearly been given the opportunity to shine and it's really helped her. (And presumably the school!) Yet they are allowing her to get all these marks against her for something outside her control.

Show quote history

It really makes no sense. She's never had a behaviour point before, she's never been in trouble. And yes, as you say she's gone and represented the school - I mean she's done them a favour helping out at open evening and then they do this! It's such a kick in the teeth!

OP posts:
Mumofoneandone · 11/07/2024 22:34

UndertheCedartree · 11/07/2024 22:24

I'm writing this in tears. So I got home from Open evening where DD had been showing families around the school. It really gave her self esteem a boost and she skipped all the way home.

I went on to the school app to check her subjects and they've given her 14 behaviour points - 7 for each suspension!! My beautiful, well behaved little girl who has never been in trouble does not deserve this. She's done nothing wrong! I'm going to have to try and hide this from her because if she were to find out that precious bit of self esteem will be destroyed 😢

Whilst I don't understand how the behaviour points system works, I can't get my head around the school!
They are suspending her but then think she's suitable for representing the school at an open evening?
I am not surprised you are in tears - your DD has clearly been given the opportunity to shine and it's really helped her. (And presumably the school!) Yet they are allowing her to get all these marks against her for something outside her control.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 11/07/2024 22:24

I'm writing this in tears. So I got home from Open evening where DD had been showing families around the school. It really gave her self esteem a boost and she skipped all the way home.

I went on to the school app to check her subjects and they've given her 14 behaviour points - 7 for each suspension!! My beautiful, well behaved little girl who has never been in trouble does not deserve this. She's done nothing wrong! I'm going to have to try and hide this from her because if she were to find out that precious bit of self esteem will be destroyed 😢

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 10/07/2024 22:05

I think the reason the SENCo doesn't seem as involved as she should be is that she teaches as well so isn't available most of the time.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 10/07/2024 22:00

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 21:57

OP, if the LA agree to assess, you can request the LA seeks advice from a psychiatrist &/or a clinical psychologist as part of the EHCNA.

If DD is unable to attend school full-time because of her MH/SEN (the rules for suspension/PEX are slightly different) the LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring DD still receives a suitable full time education. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. Provision should begin as soon as it becomes clear 15 days (consecutive or cumulative) will be missed and provision should start by sixth day at the

I have had a meeting with an Educational Psychologist and she observed DD today.

Right, brilliant, I'll sort that out too.

Once again, thank you so much for your invaluable advice!

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 10/07/2024 21:57

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 21:54

I did not say an EHCP would be issued ‘just’ for counselling or specialist software. They were examples of SEP that isn’t 1:1. DC who reasonably require either don’t require them in isolation. They require other SEP too.

Counselling is not always provided for free especially without a long waiting list. It depends entirely on the area as to what is available. It is similar to therapies such as OT, SALT, physio, CBT. They can also all be included in F of an EHCP.

The equipment as such is not for individual use but shared school property that can be allocated for specific pupil during his her stay at school.

Not always. There is some equipment that is specifically for a child with that specific equipment in F.

inexpensive sensory tools

Lots of sensory equipment is actually expensive and can mount up to thousands of pounds.

Edited

Yes, the ear defenders are just for DD and for her to keep. Noone wants to put something in their ear another DC was already using!

OP posts:
BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 21:57

OP, if the LA agree to assess, you can request the LA seeks advice from a psychiatrist &/or a clinical psychologist as part of the EHCNA.

If DD is unable to attend school full-time because of her MH/SEN (the rules for suspension/PEX are slightly different) the LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring DD still receives a suitable full time education. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. Provision should begin as soon as it becomes clear 15 days (consecutive or cumulative) will be missed and provision should start by sixth day at the

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 21:54

I did not say an EHCP would be issued ‘just’ for counselling or specialist software. They were examples of SEP that isn’t 1:1. DC who reasonably require either don’t require them in isolation. They require other SEP too.

Counselling is not always provided for free especially without a long waiting list. It depends entirely on the area as to what is available. It is similar to therapies such as OT, SALT, physio, CBT. They can also all be included in F of an EHCP.

The equipment as such is not for individual use but shared school property that can be allocated for specific pupil during his her stay at school.

Not always. There is some equipment that is specifically for a child with that specific equipment in F.

inexpensive sensory tools

Lots of sensory equipment is actually expensive and can mount up to thousands of pounds.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 10/07/2024 21:52

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 20:56

I’m not the one who doesn’t understand the difference. I didn’t confuse the two. Section B of an EHCP is the section that sets out a pupil’s special educational needs. The SEP in F is to meet the needs in B. If B is poor, F will be poor too. The needs assessment prior to an EHCP being issued is not the same thing, although informs the content of B&F (and other sections).

Parents request an EHCNA, they don’t apply for an EHCP.

We know it is ASD and specialist equipment for this is not something for individual use

This demonstrates such a lack of understanding. Some with ASD do need specialist equipment such as sensory equipment, or tech/assistive tech/specialist software. Other examples of equipment may be a standing desk or an anti fatigue standing mat for e.g. DT or ear defenders.

If there is such problem with mental health that physically healthy child cannot attend school they address it in different way: homeschooling with the school support or specialist school

I haven’t said otherwise. Although if it is inappropriate for the provision in an EHCP to be made in a school setting (other than for a temporary period of ill health) case law dictates a school not to be attended must not be named in section I. Section aid should be blank for EOTAS/EOTIS (with or without a C on the end).

Edited

My DD has special science goggles that are comfortable for her. The school also gave her those type of ear defenders that go in the ear.

OP posts:
Smoothie23 · 10/07/2024 21:49

I didn’t say otherwise. In fact, I specifically mentioned EHCPs which clearly isn’t for any pupil.

Never heard of EHCP granted just becauswe a child needs counselling. Never. That would be amazing to learn that EHCP was placed only to fund counselling. Or that a tribunal was won only because of counselling needs. Counselling is always provided for free if there is a real need and EHCP is not needed to get it - CAMS for specialist, specialist units from St George's London hospital Mental Health unit, or like Achieving for Children at a council level, and many other options are provided by referral. Nobody gives EHCP to fund what is free in UK for kids with ASD

Some with ASD do need specialist equipment such as sensory equipment, or tech/assistive tech/specialist software.

This demonstrate lack of experience. The equipment as such is not for individual use but shared school property that can be allocated for specific pupil during his her stay at school. I have never ever heard about EHCP won solely over... software and inexpensive sensory tools. There is a budget in every SEN department for this. There is no need for EHCP for that.

I will pass here because I read some absurd examples that nobody is granted EHCP for. Goodnight

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 10/07/2024 21:46

TeenDivided · 10/07/2024 20:40

My DD has/had an EHCP at college.
She doesn't need 1-1 nor equipment. She already had extra time before the EHCP.

She needs various adjustments in and out of class, and more regular access to learning support and counselling than college would provide without it. It made all the difference between not coping and succeeding.

That's good to hear. My eldest is autistic too. He has reasonable adjustments at college which work well for him too.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 10/07/2024 21:43

Smoothie23 · 10/07/2024 20:31

@BrumToTheRescue
No, the whole point of (the educational sections) an EHCP is that the child’s needs, the SEP they reasonably require and outcomes are set out.

Nobody applies for EHCP if there is no need for funding for resources or assistance. The whole point of EHCP is to provide a plan to justify additional funding.
The council will not grant EHCP if the needs are met by the school, and no additional funding is required

If a child needs EHCNA only then it is not called EHCP. Please do not confuse it.

Many with ASD do need sensory equipment &/or tech/assistive tech/specialist software.
And you are convinced that they need the EHCP for it? The schools have already access to it. Every school has many ASD kids.

If counselling is required for a pupil with an EHCP, a normal referral to CAMHS isn’t required.
We are talking about ASD counselling and not for any pupil. Any pupil gets counselling provided by school or run by Council like here where I live Achieving for Children. When it comes to ASD it is done by the specialists like CAMHS or specialist intevention units for ASD and not organisations run by Council.

Edited
Show quote history

My DD is on the waiting list for the school counsellor for this reason CAMHS didn't accept her referral.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 10/07/2024 21:41

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 20:04

OP, focus on the suspension being unlawful and discriminatory.

If DD can’t attend school full time because of her SEN/MH, have you requested alternative provision?

No, I've not. Do I request that from the school or the LA?

OP posts:
BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 20:56

I’m not the one who doesn’t understand the difference. I didn’t confuse the two. Section B of an EHCP is the section that sets out a pupil’s special educational needs. The SEP in F is to meet the needs in B. If B is poor, F will be poor too. The needs assessment prior to an EHCP being issued is not the same thing, although informs the content of B&F (and other sections).

Parents request an EHCNA, they don’t apply for an EHCP.

We know it is ASD and specialist equipment for this is not something for individual use

This demonstrates such a lack of understanding. Some with ASD do need specialist equipment such as sensory equipment, or tech/assistive tech/specialist software. Other examples of equipment may be a standing desk or an anti fatigue standing mat for e.g. DT or ear defenders.

If there is such problem with mental health that physically healthy child cannot attend school they address it in different way: homeschooling with the school support or specialist school

I haven’t said otherwise. Although if it is inappropriate for the provision in an EHCP to be made in a school setting (other than for a temporary period of ill health) case law dictates a school not to be attended must not be named in section I. Section aid should be blank for EOTAS/EOTIS (with or without a C on the end).

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 20:50

We are talking about ASD counselling and not for any pupil.

I didn’t say otherwise. In fact, I specifically mentioned EHCPs which clearly isn’t for any pupil.

Any pupil gets counselling provided by school or run by Council like here where I live Achieving for Children.

This depends entirely on the school and area. Not all schools offer counselling. Not all areas have a counselling service available to all. Certainly not ongoing and without a very lengthy waiting list.

When it comes to ASD it is done by the specialists like CAMHS or specialist intevention units for ASD and not organisations run by Council.

I didn’t say it was provided by organisations run by the council. What I said is it should be in F and a normal referral to CAMHS isn’t required. This is true. They aren’t the same things.

If it is in F a) you don’t need a normal referral and to sit on the normal waiting lists because it must be provided regardless of any normal referral process or waiting list, b) it is ultimately the LA who is responsible for it, and c) it isn’t always provided by CAMHS or specialist hospitals. Sometimes it is outsourced to independent professionals and sometimes LAs buy in packages of support from outside agencies.

Smoothie23 · 10/07/2024 20:46

I haven’t confused an EHCNA with an EHCP. You on the other seem to be because no one can apply for an EHCP. They request an EHCNA.

Yes you did by implying that EHCP is to set up needs. EHCNA states the needs. EHCP is granted only if funding is needed. You don't understand the difference

Any parent can apply for EHCP directly with council or through school. But it doesn't mean that every applicant is receiving it even with tribunal.

“use of specialist equipment ( does she need it? I doubt it)” when you can’t possibly know that.

We know it is ASD and specialist equipment for this is not something for individual use like e.g. wheelchair or personal school transport. If there is such problem with mental health that physically healthy child cannot attend school they address it in different way: homeschooling with the school support or specialist school

TeenDivided · 10/07/2024 20:40

My DD has/had an EHCP at college.
She doesn't need 1-1 nor equipment. She already had extra time before the EHCP.

She needs various adjustments in and out of class, and more regular access to learning support and counselling than college would provide without it. It made all the difference between not coping and succeeding.

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 20:36

I haven’t confused an EHCNA with an EHCP. You on the other seem to be because no one can apply for an EHCP. They request an EHCNA.

The funding is not the whole point of an EHCP. The whole point of (the educational sections of) an EHCP is to have needs, SEP, outcomes set out. Additional funding is a byproduct of those being set out. An EHCP could have £40k attached to it, but unless the SEP is detailed, specified and quantified in F the child may not receive any provision because it is the SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F that is legally enforceable.

It is possible to get an EHCP when the school could do more than won’t. Yes, parents may have to appeal, but that doesn’t change the fact it is possible.

Assistance does not equal 1:1.

Many schools don’t have the sensory equipment and tech/assistive tech/specialist software DC with SEN reasonably require. However, I didn’t say an EHCP was needed for it. I was challenging you posting “use of specialist equipment ( does she need it? I doubt it)” when you can’t possibly know that.

Smoothie23 · 10/07/2024 20:31

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 20:03

The whole sense behind EHCP is obtaining additional funding

No, the whole point of (the educational sections) an EHCP is that the child’s needs, the SEP they reasonably require and outcomes are set out. Additional funding in order to meet those needs, provide the SEP and thus meet the outcomes is a byproduct of that, but it is not the whole sense of an EHCP. Which is why parents should focus on the SEP in F rather than the funding.

That may be through the use of specialist equipment ( does she need it? I doubt it) or 1:1 learning mentor for lister by me reasons.

There are many other things that are SEP. Not all will have 1:1 and not all will have equipment in F. Although how on earth you can judge OP’s DD doesn’t need equipment, I don’t know. Many with ASD do need sensory equipment &/or tech/assistive tech/specialist software.

If it is a need for counselling the schools refer to CAMHS

If counselling is required for a pupil with an EHCP, a normal referral to CAMHS isn’t required. It should be detailed, specified and quantified in F. It may or may not be provided by the NHS. If it is provided via the NHS, it may not be in a specialist hospital. It is rare for schools to provide long term MH therapies to the level required by many DC with the needs OP describes. Parents often have to appeal, but that doesn’t change any of the above.

If an ongoing monitoring is needed they council will look for specialist school if it is possible in the areas. They do anything to avoid another EHCP.

An EHCP is required for specialist schools. Not all DC who require ongoing monitoring are in or need SS. Just because LAs try to avoid issuing EHCPs doesn’t mean it is lawful or the parents should accept it without challenge.

@BrumToTheRescue
No, the whole point of (the educational sections) an EHCP is that the child’s needs, the SEP they reasonably require and outcomes are set out.

Nobody applies for EHCP if there is no need for funding for resources or assistance. The whole point of EHCP is to provide a plan to justify additional funding.
The council will not grant EHCP if the needs are met by the school, and no additional funding is required

If a child needs EHCNA only then it is not called EHCP. Please do not confuse it.

Many with ASD do need sensory equipment &/or tech/assistive tech/specialist software.
And you are convinced that they need the EHCP for it? The schools have already access to it. Every school has many ASD kids.

If counselling is required for a pupil with an EHCP, a normal referral to CAMHS isn’t required.
We are talking about ASD counselling and not for any pupil. Any pupil gets counselling provided by school or run by Council like here where I live Achieving for Children. When it comes to ASD it is done by the specialists like CAMHS or specialist intevention units for ASD and not organisations run by Council.