To not understand the fixation on attendance?

I wouldn’t mind it going the other way. We moved house months ago and the new county still haven’t found a school place for my child. I’d love to fine them for each day missed. And compensate me for not being able to work.

I've worked in schools for years and would say this is the worst year for illness I've ever had, and one of the reasons is this obsession with attendance. Sending sick children to school just spreads it around and no one has time to get better before catching the next illness. Staff included. Even in the last few montts we've had Strep A, Scarlet Fever, Covid, sickness bugs and well as things like chicken pox etc... My own children have the worst attendance they've ever had because they just keep getting sick, I'll be glad when this school year is over!

These poor attenders become poor attenders all through life and are on a mission to achieve nothing. I see it in Further and Higher Education. I have evidence. When bursaries are involved, it becomes fraud.

Also a teacher. Students come in when they're sick and spread germs around. Or they return too soon and can't concentrate so might as well be home getting better. It sets a problematic precedent. It's a culture here in the UK now and probably comes from the USA, it's not a good work ethic, it spreads germs around and isn't good for mental health. Staff can be put under pressure to work when sick. I don't know why the current ed sec is going on about it, but the previous ones have too, it's been a thing for the last 20 years or more and fluctuates in terms of how schools respond to dips in attendance

It's an interesting point, however, in most cases that trust already does not exist and hence the poor attendance in first place.

Many parents just dont think highly of school, for a variety reasons. Some prefer to holiday during the year only to post Angry People in Local Newspaper style photos once they get a fine, many think they could be better teachers if they had that job (they wouldnt, but hey ho), many refuse to engage with schools when initial conversations about attendance happen, many are very defensive. I had a few students who were let to stay at home with the lightest cold, some period pain (and I dont mean severe pain/bleeding but literally, the normal period most girls experience). I am exlucing from personal statistics SEN students and kids with major mental health issues. But I count kids who mostly could have come to school but had a bit of a cold, and parents were either disengaged, or didnt take the attendance seriously because they felt self-important. For some a letter was a kick in the butt to actually get a kid to school or not get another term time holiday to Disneyland.

As a Chair of Govs at a state school obsessed with attendance the argument that attendance and grades are correlated really depends on cohort. Schools are usually obsessed by splitting data into cohorts when it suits them, but not for this. The reality is that the parents life and pressures has more of a correlation on the attendance and grades.
The parents that have the time (sometimes inclination) to support their child through reading at early years and supporting homework like times tables etc will mostly do better.
You can break this cohort down further to pupil premium and other similar income type groupings. No-one wants to admit that poorer families, often with single mums doing their best to put food on the table also struggle to support their kids. Add to kids with SEN to that as a cohort split and the data is depressing.
If we helped these families more their children’s outcomes would be better.
It’s also much easier for heads to bully more well off parents who go on holiday a week early in summer, although, in the days I see, those children are rarely the issue for the lower attendance = worse outcomes.

That maybe ebing in school is a better option out of the two, did you find it hard to figure out that you had to ask?

The real issue is that the vast majority of reasons why children do have poor attendance can't be fixed by threatening letters, or fines or jail threats. They just add extra stressors on the family/child and breaks down relationships and trust with the school.

When I worked in school admin we had a pupils university offer withdrawn because of her dreadful attendance record. It does matter, especially in senior school. Teachers can not repeat lessons as the curriculum is so packed, so pupils missing school are disadvantaged.

Yes. In fact, I would argue that low attendance, rather than being a cause of low achievement, should be treated as a flag that signposts to the liklihood of low achievement. The attenance itself is a red herring. There is an underlying issue which leads to 1. low attendance and 2 low attainment. Potentially.

Yes, but the first rule of interpreting data is that correlation does not equal causation.

As many have already said on this thread there are many interweaving reasons why there is correlation between attendance and achievement. But causation is a lot harder to disentangle.

Yes.

What's your point?

Ofsted requirement.

The whole school system relies on threats,punishments and rewards, it’s a flawed idea.
I’m from a Scandinavian country and we have none of that and none of that and we do better in education.

But sitting at home on their phones will also do f* all for kids who are disengaged, would you not say?

Correlation does not equal causation.

And there will be a huge difference between children who have difficult home lives, with the wide range of issues that comes with, who ALSO don’t attend school, and the child with a generally stable home life, who has a few illnesses that year and/or whose parent wants to take them out for a week’s holiday, but who otherwise has good attendance.

Those stats will also be affected by SEN children.

The issue is that underfunding or withdrawal of support services for vulnerable families and SEND children, such as social services, Sure Start, CAMHS etc along with the push to save money by having more and more SEND children with higher and higher needs in mainstream schools which they struggle to cope with on less and less money, has led to these issues with poor attendance. But rather than deal with these issues the Tory government have done what they always do and blame and punish. I hope labour aren’t just going to follow suit and actually do something to tackle the underlying issues.

“SEN children without support don’t have an attendance problem, they have a support problem (and I know this is because central government don’t fund local government well enough to pay for it but the kids can’t help that!)”

THIS 100%

I agree with some of what you say here.

However, our education system has become more and more narrow in its focus. As schools rely on ratings to attract new parents, they focus on the areas that are being tested and other areas become neglected.

Some people will need good GCSE grades in order to do well in their chosen field. Others will excel in areas that rely more on soft skills and intuition such as customer service and caring roles.

In order to progress up the ladder they may need to go on and do further training but doing a specific training course in an area that you understand and do well is very different to drowning in many subjects that you don't. People (not just choldren) will learn when when they are motivated, feel valued and see a pathway to success. Schools don't meet these requirements for many children.

There isn't one 'real world' is there?! It really depends on workplace, location, boss etc.. But unfortunately you get the flexibility you need by getting a good education and skills that give you options.

Kids need to do things that scare them, be punctual, follow rules they don't agree with at times etc... and a class of 30 cannot do something different for every child. My child has benefited hugely from school and from understanding things sometimes can't be negotiated or done his way.

But there's a limit. And if your child is disabled, ill or traumatised and no compromise or help is given that can't always be judged in the same way.

Ours are triggered at 95% attendances so that we can offer help before it gets worse.

We send them to everyone to avoid any perceived stigma and judgment, and so that we don't miss a family that needs help just because we think they don't.

I don't know why parents can't just apply a bit of critical thinking - an automated letter that they can ignore if their absences are genuine, short term and unavoidable.

Instead they're outraged and triggered by them, despite teachers telling you that they prompt some families to ask for help when they wouldn't otherwise.

Congratulations 🎊

DS (now in his 20s) only had 3 days off in his entire school career. I have not been off work sick for a single day in the six years in my current job.

No, but you also wont fatten it by skipping meals..

DD will start Year 6 in September and she hasn't had a single day off sick since starting reception. Nothing but luck, she's just very rarely poorly and if she is it always seems to fall in a school holiday.

She has had time off for two family holidays in that time though so doubt we'll be getting a bike

Oh, couldn't agree more. I have been banging on and on, on this thread about attendance being a symptom rather than the problem in itself. And just hoping that forcing children to go to.achiol might give them an education is a pretty low bar and only a tiny but better than just not letting them attend at all.