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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand the fixation on attendance?

314 replies

Gardenschmarden99 · 08/07/2024 00:02

Or at least to the level it currently is…

New education secretary and based on her speech to the association of school leaders it seems her focus is on attendance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m an ex teacher with two primary age children who go to school whenever they aren’t unwell. Broadly I’m in favour of children going to school!

But I don’t think I’ve met many teachers who really think the current fixation is helpful. For those with deep seated problems, they would benefit from intervention. For those families that were unlucky enough to catch covid and a sickness bug in one school year the rather officious computer says no letters just erode the seriousness of actual attendance problems.

When children are unwell, they shouldn’t be in school even if it makes the attendance dip below 97%.

SEN children without support don’t have an attendance problem, they have a support problem (and I know this is because central government don’t fund local government well enough to pay for it but the kids can’t help that!)

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher…. And yes, I’d also be in favour of my child’s teacher being able to go to a family wedding or see their child on sports day or (God forbid) have a day out with their spouse a few times a year.

My family live in a European country (not especially known for being ‘progressive’) where all this over focus on attendance is just not a thing. They outperform us in league tables for academic and mental health of children.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Ukrainebaby23 · 10/07/2024 07:54

TheaBrandt · 08/07/2024 06:04

School showed us a graph with a direct correlation between lack of attendance and low grades.

Don't mix correlation with causation.
Those kids might have had poor grades whatever. It's probably bc they have additional unmet support needs.

Shattereddreamsparkway · 10/07/2024 07:20

Pipsqueaker · 10/07/2024 07:19

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher

Headteachers do have discretion, they can authorise any holidays they want to! Guidance states that it should only be in ‘exceptional circumstances’, but the guidance is non-statutory and it comes down to the headteacher’s own attitude in the end.

Yep we do this. We have permitted teachers days during the year for weddings etc. some schools don’t even let staff take a day for a funeral

Pipsqueaker · 10/07/2024 07:19

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher

Headteachers do have discretion, they can authorise any holidays they want to! Guidance states that it should only be in ‘exceptional circumstances’, but the guidance is non-statutory and it comes down to the headteacher’s own attitude in the end.

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 10/07/2024 07:11

@RunningThroughMyHead what does resilience have to do with chicken pox, scarlet fever,covid, strep A , norovirus etc.?

Shattereddreamsparkway · 10/07/2024 06:47

The majority of the attendance focus started after the data from the pandemic was released where more than 140,000 children missed more than 50% classes.

Also poor Arthur Labinjo-Hughes who’s father gave the school excuses for his absent who was then found murdered by his partner 9 days after his first absence.

I work for an alternative provision and the amount of children who have not been in education since the pandemic is shocking. Equally, the amount of LAC or those who are on a child protection plan or child in need plan also have concerning levels of absence. Sadly, there are also a lot of parents who do little about their child not attending school.
Higher expectations are introduced as a child can have a couple of absences a year which can then rapidly increase.

RunningThroughMyHead · 10/07/2024 06:30

IkeaMeatballGravy · 08/07/2024 06:10

A local school recently gave a student a bike for not having a single day off for the whole of primary school, even through covid. I struggle to believe a child could go two years without having a single cough cold or raised temperature, so while other parents were abiding by the Covid rules, his parents were not.

Children cannot help being poorly, being lucky enough to not get poorly for a whole year is reward enough!

My guess would be that the family don't take time off for a cough or cold.

People have no resilience anymore.

lemonmeringueno3 · 10/07/2024 05:35

"We should have applied years ago ourselves but kept been told if X happens child will get support. And then when that evidence was there they had a new excuse."

Have you got the EHCP application process underway now though?

How did you get the Ed Psych involved before a referral had been done?

Your example about the TA is really tough for everyone. It is hard to justify giving TA support to a child who is 'fine' when other children are showing more obvious needs. You see it on here all the time 'my child's learning is being interrupted by a disruptive child and nobody is doing anything about it.' Those are the children who are prioritised for support. In an ideal world you'd have enough TAs to support every child who exhibits anxiety at home - and all the other needs too - but there isn't enough money to pay them. Rare for schools to deny support because they don't care I think. Maybe things will change with a new government.

It is hard isn't it and I can't really comment on your individual case without knowing the full facts. You might have a rubbish school. Certainly, SEND children are being let down by decimated funding, long waiting lists and ever-increasing barriers to access support.

From a school perspective, there is a graduated response and sometimes parents request things that need outside agency involvement or approval - and they say no until everything else has been exhausted.

Similarly you can't just reduce a timetable because a parent asks. We'd end up with half the class missing, or all parents choosing days/times to attend. Again, you have to follow a process to get to that point but I can see how frustrating the wait must be.

echt · 10/07/2024 04:58

Againlosinghope · 10/07/2024 00:53

Only glanced but that doesn't look like it is research into low attendance at school means low attendance at work?

It's in the title: Missing Children, Missing Grades.

wellington77 · 10/07/2024 03:52

Lack of attendance has been proven to reduce your academic achievement. Two weeks off is enough to lower your result by a grade. I’m a teacher I see it all the time, there are students who are persistently off and will not catch up with where they left off and fall behind. Also Lack of attendance can ( not always) signal issues at home- parents not respecting education enough. School refusal. Child mental health issues, abuse at home- can’t come in due to marks on body. Attendance is important so students can achieve, have a sense of routine, be monitored well being wise. One student I know had her daily shower at school and clothes washed as parents were rubbish- attendance made that possible.

Againlosinghope · 10/07/2024 00:53

echt · 10/07/2024 00:35

This might not be the research referred to, but this is recent and has graphs.

https://assets.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/wpuploads/2023/11/CC-REPORT--Attendance-and-Attainment--Oct-23.pdf

Only glanced but that doesn't look like it is research into low attendance at school means low attendance at work?

echt · 10/07/2024 00:35

Againlosinghope · 09/07/2024 23:22

Please give a link to the research you quote?

This might not be the research referred to, but this is recent and has graphs.

https://assets.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/wpuploads/2023/11/CC-REPORT--Attendance-and-Attainment--Oct-23.pdf

https://assets.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/wpuploads/2023/11/CC-REPORT-_-Attendance-and-Attainment-_-Oct-23.pdf

solsticelove · 10/07/2024 00:13

Until the government start lookin st WHY so many people are unable to attend school consistently (illness aside) no amount of we will focus on attendance’ or ‘we will employ 600 new teachers’ will change anything!

I don’t understand why these government ministers think that basically clamping down on attendance is a solution! It’s a band-aid at best.

Againlosinghope · 10/07/2024 00:08

lemonmeringueno3 · 09/07/2024 23:58

A tutor at home while unable to attend school (as hospital education dept also requested) never happened

Hospital education dept do not need school's permission to provide this.

Shorter days - not legally allowed (others have had this)

Yes certainly possible but only with support of outside agencies once graduated response has been followed. If supporting agencies do not recommend, or want us to try other things first, we can't do it.

Ed psych assessment (refused)

In our area, an Ed Psych assessment is not offered routinely and we cannot refer. An assessment would be done as part of an EHCP application or when pursuing a diagnosis.

Extra support in lessons (no funding)

If no TAs available or TAs are supporting pupils with more need, then this is certainly hard to achieve.

Apply for EHCP (No child doesn't meet criteria)

You yourself can apply for an EHCP if you disagree with school (who may well be accurately quoting local authority guidance).

Do something things are awful ( nothing we can do)

It is difficult. Parents come with a suite of requests and hate us for saying no. But there is a process to follow and if you skip any steps then you'll just be rejected by whoever you're referring to anyway.

The hospital was in a different part of the UK so tutor had to be managed via our LA. They did nothing.

Health reasons meant if a full days then child wouldn't manage all week. Shorter days would have meant child was in more regularly.

Schools always have an excuse why something can't happen.
My favourite excuse is child isn't in enough to show if support is needed. We then got child in everyday this meant that other than school child could do nothing other than spend rest of day on sofa and all weekend unable to move. Had to be dressed and fed. School response child in everyday so they are fine and no adjustments needed.
We should have applied years ago ourselves but kept been told if X happens child will get support. And then when that evidence was there they had a new excuse.

If a child needs support and the school needs funding to provide they should damn well support the family and child and get off bums and do the paperwork.

When ed psych finally was involved they asked school to do a referral. 12 months latter school were still saying it's next on my list to fill out

lemonmeringueno3 · 09/07/2024 23:58

A tutor at home while unable to attend school (as hospital education dept also requested) never happened

Hospital education dept do not need school's permission to provide this.

Shorter days - not legally allowed (others have had this)

Yes certainly possible but only with support of outside agencies once graduated response has been followed. If supporting agencies do not recommend, or want us to try other things first, we can't do it.

Ed psych assessment (refused)

In our area, an Ed Psych assessment is not offered routinely and we cannot refer. An assessment would be done as part of an EHCP application or when pursuing a diagnosis.

Extra support in lessons (no funding)

If no TAs available or TAs are supporting pupils with more need, then this is certainly hard to achieve.

Apply for EHCP (No child doesn't meet criteria)

You yourself can apply for an EHCP if you disagree with school (who may well be accurately quoting local authority guidance).

Do something things are awful ( nothing we can do)

It is difficult. Parents come with a suite of requests and hate us for saying no. But there is a process to follow and if you skip any steps then you'll just be rejected by whoever you're referring to anyway.

lemonmeringueno3 · 09/07/2024 23:46

"Conplete and utter bullshit. But then my friends daughter has leukaemia and they are also threatening to take her to court. It’s completely f**led up. Meanwhile, kids who are at school 100% but are miserably failing nobody seems to give a shit about because hey, they’re in school every day. 🤬"

If true, you've got a bad school there. Utterly outrageous and certainly not my experience at any school I've encountered. Threatening court for a child with leukaemia? Very very hard to believe.

lemonmeringueno3 · 09/07/2024 23:44

fliptopbin · 09/07/2024 23:08

The thing that gets to me about the attendance targets is the fact that schools go for the easy targets,rather than dealing with the kids with more complex issues. It is really cynical, as the purpose behind the attendance targets is to encourage families who don't value education to make an effort and help their children to achieve to their full potential.
However, those families are mire likely to be rude when challenged, and if they do engage, their problems are often difficult for schools to fix. Therefore it is much easier to send stroppy letters to the parents of children who gave been off for 3 weeks after surgery, who have been unlucky enough to get Norovirus and chicken pox in the same year, or who have had tonsillitis three times in a year and are being monitored to see if they need their tonsils out.
I guess schools figure that those parents are unlikely to complain.

No, we send the letter to everyone and follow up with everyone in exactly the same way.

You may consider yourself an easy target and feel cross when you get a letter, or at least those are the vocal families on sm, but behind the scenes we will be working with all of those hard-to-reach families too. They just don't talk about it and not do we.

Againlosinghope · 09/07/2024 23:27

lemonmeringueno3 · 09/07/2024 23:03

I am a teacher. Some parents respond to the letters by asking for help or admitting there is a problem. We have a family being supported by Women's Aid as a result of those letters. I am sorry if some parents are offended to receive them but surely you can just throw it away and ignore it, whilst rationally knowing that they do actually serve a purpose.

We asked for help before and after the many letters.

A tutor at home while unable to attend school (as hospital education dept also requested) never happened
Shorter days - not legally allowed (others have had this)
Ed psych assessment (refused)
Extra support in lessons (no funding)
Apply for EHCP (No child doesn't meet criteria)
Do something things are awful ( nothing we can do)

Etc etc
Pushed from pillar to post and getting no support just countless letters and meetings which get us no where

Againlosinghope · 09/07/2024 23:22

Please give a link to the research you quote?

WitchyMoon · 09/07/2024 23:13

TheaBrandt · 08/07/2024 06:04

School showed us a graph with a direct correlation between lack of attendance and low grades.

But they don’t compose data of attendance AND attainment. They just don’t care about that. My son has 82% attendance due to post covid illness confirmed by the doctors. He is top of his class, has just taken a GCSE 2 years early and has more merit points than almost anyone in his year. We have still been hauled in, told we are breaking the law and threatened with court several times. The stress this causes the whole family is awful. The local attendance officer even said they don’t care about attainment. It’s purely about that attendance ‘percentage’
Conplete and utter bullshit. But then my friends daughter has leukaemia and they are also threatening to take her to court. It’s completely f**led up. Meanwhile, kids who are at school 100% but are miserably failing nobody seems to give a shit about because hey, they’re in school every day. 🤬

fliptopbin · 09/07/2024 23:08

The thing that gets to me about the attendance targets is the fact that schools go for the easy targets,rather than dealing with the kids with more complex issues. It is really cynical, as the purpose behind the attendance targets is to encourage families who don't value education to make an effort and help their children to achieve to their full potential.
However, those families are mire likely to be rude when challenged, and if they do engage, their problems are often difficult for schools to fix. Therefore it is much easier to send stroppy letters to the parents of children who gave been off for 3 weeks after surgery, who have been unlucky enough to get Norovirus and chicken pox in the same year, or who have had tonsillitis three times in a year and are being monitored to see if they need their tonsils out.
I guess schools figure that those parents are unlikely to complain.

lemonmeringueno3 · 09/07/2024 23:04

"I had poor attendance at school but my work attitude and attendance has been excellent.
I see this with others who had poor attendance for all manor of reasons growing up too."

Interesting but research suggests your outcome is not typical.

lemonmeringueno3 · 09/07/2024 23:03

I am a teacher. Some parents respond to the letters by asking for help or admitting there is a problem. We have a family being supported by Women's Aid as a result of those letters. I am sorry if some parents are offended to receive them but surely you can just throw it away and ignore it, whilst rationally knowing that they do actually serve a purpose.

Againlosinghope · 09/07/2024 22:30

spacewitch99 · 09/07/2024 20:34

These poor attenders become poor attenders all through life and are on a mission to achieve nothing. I see it in Further and Higher Education. I have evidence. When bursaries are involved, it becomes fraud.

I had poor attendance at school but my work attitude and attendance has been excellent.
I see this with others who had poor attendance for all manor of reasons growing up too.

Againlosinghope · 09/07/2024 22:27

Tulipsareredvioletsarebue · 09/07/2024 19:59

It's an interesting point, however, in most cases that trust already does not exist and hence the poor attendance in first place.

Many parents just dont think highly of school, for a variety reasons. Some prefer to holiday during the year only to post Angry People in Local Newspaper style photos once they get a fine, many think they could be better teachers if they had that job (they wouldnt, but hey ho), many refuse to engage with schools when initial conversations about attendance happen, many are very defensive. I had a few students who were let to stay at home with the lightest cold, some period pain (and I dont mean severe pain/bleeding but literally, the normal period most girls experience). I am exlucing from personal statistics SEN students and kids with major mental health issues. But I count kids who mostly could have come to school but had a bit of a cold, and parents were either disengaged, or didnt take the attendance seriously because they felt self-important. For some a letter was a kick in the butt to actually get a kid to school or not get another term time holiday to Disneyland.

I had a lot of respect for schools, I had a lot of trust that they would put support in place as needed.
My trust was broken by the system. The letters didn't help improve attendance and they caused a lot of stress.
I would still trust schools if they had done what they should have. I would still respect schools if they didn't send letters out and pressure me to get child in when my child was very ill

Againlosinghope · 09/07/2024 22:23

Tulipsareredvioletsarebue · 09/07/2024 19:53

That maybe ebing in school is a better option out of the two, did you find it hard to figure out that you had to ask?

In order for the child to recover from school based trauma this will take different approaches and time.
For some children sitting on their phones or watch TV can be part of the process of recovery. Low demand, low stress environment to enable their body and mind to start recovery.
Time in nature, time with supportive adults, time to build relationships with peers.

Many things and combinations of tactics will be needed.
A child with a broken thigh bone in cast may appear to be sat on their bottom but they are hardly fit to run a 100m sprint. I doubt they and their family will be judged harshly for that.

A child who had an emotional breakdown, is in burn out or is mentally unwell shouldn't be judged by people like you either