Is modern parenting damaging to kids?

@Stravaig we all know the history. People in other parts of the United Kingdom do expect thank you and please manners.

'Britain' is an colonial construct, it denotes England's subjugation of Scotland,
Wales and Northern Ireland. Our manners are not England's manners (nor is anything else the same), no matter how often or for how long our erasure is attempted by the blanket application of 'British'.

@Stravaig I find people give a lot of leeway in manners to people not born and brought up in Britain. But when people have been born and brought up here they will be judged as adults if they ignore British ideas of manners.
And I have lived abroad and taught my children the manners to follow there.

As so often happens, some people are describing a certain subset of very English mannerisms as if they hold true for all the diverse peoples who inhabit our multiple nations.

And kids from Indian and Chinese backgrounds are brought up closer to the traditional way white British kids used to be brought up.

@Ozanj you say yourself in your field your contemporaries are not white British, so your way of doing things is acceptable to them. In some fields your way of operating would have you branded as rude. People would still do business with you if it could make them money, but they would not want to be friends with you or socialise with you just for fun.

Lol perhaps you need to consider that the reason why white British kids don’t do as well as kids from Indian or Chinese backgrounds (and report higher anxiety) is because their parents are focussing on the wrong things.

I’m of an Indian background. Never say please or thank you, rarely make contact, talk directly, never shake hands. I earn £130k and am near the top of my field. In the UK. Where all of my contempories are the same as me ie not white British.

Absolutely this..

Grinds my gears..
I've a friend who's DM is from another country and many a time they'll remark about not doing xyz as it's not the done thing, or an item isn't called such and such in their home country.

True. But if you do not follow the social mores of the country you live in, you will struggle socially.

What annoys me is, some people seem to think that children are either inside on screens or playing out unsupervised as the only 2 options for a childhood. My child spends lots of time outside and doesn't even own an ipad, we live by the sea and he's always at the beach but I'm there with him.

Similarly, the older generation seem to think there's smacking/ultra strict parenting or gentle parenting and not a lot in between, whereas most parents will fall inbetween.

You only have to read some of the posts on MN, parents getting involved in playground squabbles, anger at teachers who attempt any sort of discipline etc. The real world will come as a shock as these children enter adulthood.

In many societies not making eye contact, not smiling at strangers, and not saying please and thank you is the norm. The white / British way isn’t the only way.

It’s a little bit of both.

children figuring out playground disagreements does not generally result in fair or reasonable results. It results in ND or otherwise different children being bullied repeatedly. A degree of adult intervention is required.

I do still wish my child had a bit of the freedom and responsibility that I had as a child. We are trying to work her towards it, but it has been challenging. Partly because society isn’t really set up for her to have that freedom, partly because of her personality, and sadly, because she lost a critical developmental window because of Covid.

Why does it matter to you if a child unrelated to you can’t make eye contact with you or say please / thank you?

Most children are fundamentally honest and have valid reasons for everything even if an adult eventually bullies them into submitting.

Eg in my culture we don’t say please or thank you. It’s considered morally wrong (it’s seen as akin to begging). So of course my 4 year old doesn’t as his social interactions are centred around our home and we can’t expect him to use words we don’t.

What if the child DOESN'T hate being late? I understand the logic behind natural consequences for some things. You throw the toy and it breaks so you no longer have the toy. You keep hitting the child at soft play so we leave soft play.

But I genuinely don't see how it can be applied to all areas.

If you don't put your shoes on we'll be late and you hate being late. But if they child doesn't hate being late and doesn't care then what is the consequence? What else can be a consequence of that? Surely if you use a "consequence" of taking a nice thing away you're now heading down the punishment route not natural consequences.

What if you're at a friend's house and the child wants to go home and you don't so starts breaking your friends possessions. You can't say stop that or we'll leave as that's giving the child exactly what they want. You can't say well if you don't stop it we'll stay longer as that's not a natural consequence and is pretty much just a punishment again.

I'm astonished by manners or lack of them. We as children were briefed before a social engagement on how to behave and what was expected of us.

I did the same for my children. It gave them confidence to interact and when they could take themselves off politely to play.

I am sad for children who can't hold a conversation, say please and thank you or look you in the eye. These kids are prepared for nothing and will not contribute as nothing is expected of them.

I find "kind parenting" phraseology is a patronising in that it infers that previous parenting weren't kind.

We should be raising children to be helpful kind adults, not spoilt children who don't know the word no.

How old is she now?

Also what’s your evidence that ‘gentle parenting’ doesn’t work and what’s your definition of gentle parenting?

What the research consistently shows is hill warmth/love with consistent boundaries is best.