Is modern parenting damaging to kids?

Interesting that you get the opposite to what I thought I was saying.

I am from a set of 7 siblings. Creative, clever, sensitive and with a range of mental health issues in youth and adulthood. Despite all the benign neglect and "freedom". So I disagree on a personal and philosophical level. My family are like most, they are a bit fucked up. My kids are as well, in their own way i am sure. No one is a perfect parent I am definitely not! But I really don't think being responsive and providing safety is damaging. I am not a gentle parent. I am just not convinced about what they have created in young people. Society is anxious because life is so complex, there is too much information too much choice too much stress placed on people. Poverty, comparison being the thief of joy, social media, modern wars. Anxiety as a condition is better understood and treated now, it can be both situational and innate/ inherited.

Prison is not filled with the gentle parented. It is filled with neglected and abused people, many from the "care" system. The most damage that can be done to a child is through abuse and neglect. I struggle with the notion that we used to be better parents in the old days. The past is a foreign country and I do not want to revisit the land of corporal punishment and be seen not heard.

Very interesting topic! Will come back to read through comments later!

My 4 year old is incredibly anxious. We don't really know why and are trying to help him with ways to manage it because I don't want it hold him back.

We've never hit, I do shout at times but try not to as it doesn't do much good, my "firm mum" voice works loads better. When he was little if he threw or hit with a toy, that toy went away until he was calmer. We left a soft play after 15 mins when he was 2 because he hit another child - after that if another child was "too close" he roared at them instead 🤣

My nan was born in 1930. I'm not sure how she was parented as she didn't like to talk about things really, but I do know she was always a very anxious child and adult. My child displays traits I vividly remember seeing in my nan. Think worrying if windows are closed"properly" or going through a bin to take out a tissue to "put in the right way" and being overwhelmed in busy/noisy places.

I'm willing to admit I probably have contributed to it in some ways - he was 3 months when lockdown began and I'm vulnerable so we took it very seriously for longer than others, which meant it was just us for big portion of his first year. When he went to nursery at 14 months he (like all the others) was handed over to a stranger in a mask at the door at drop off. At 4.5 he still massively struggles with drop offs.

But I do think he's inherited some of what my dear old nan had too.

I’m sorry to hear that you were called abusive. It’s so unhelpful, and you are right that parent well-being has to be part of the decision making. We all ebb and flow in our ability to reach the parenting standards we set ourselves and self compassion is key. Not helpful to blame and label each other.

Even with smacking. I’m 100% of the belief it’s not helpful and shouldn’t be standard parenting practice, but when faced with an over tired, hungry and dysregulated toddler that has had a massive dopamine crash in response to a ‘no’ and is lashing out at you, and you are on your last legs because you had no sleep, you have not had chance to eat and you are trying to find the car keys because you need to get to the hospital for an appointment at a certain time… it’s understandable. We just have to notice, forgive ourselves, reflect on what went wrong, learn and move on.

Parenting is bloody hard! Especially if when our own parents didn’t manage to do it well.

Thanks. I was hoping you’d found a magic way to circumvent the nagging, cajoling etc 😂 bugger.

😊 I suspect that kids who do their chores dutifully without prompting are probably living in fear. You're doing fine.

Thanks. I was hoping you’d found a magic way to circumvent the nagging, cajoling etc 😂 bugger.

I understand the reasoning behind the discipline. I tried the stern voice and a "no you do not hit" but he would laugh at me and litterly run around me to go back to hitting which lead to physical restraint and he continued the behaviour as he was getting attention.
By removing myself by putting him in a different location he lost the response from me and the behaviour stopped so I could use more positive reinforcement to work on building their relationship.

The stern voice approach works with my youngest, as you said every child is different and responds to different approaches.

Regarding sleep training I have been accused of abuse even using gentle sleep training methods despite being at the point that I was suicidal with sleep deprivation / depression and had a husband who was a key worker during covid so out of the house with no option to ask famly for help. Your reasonable understanding is a fair response but not what is often said to struggling parents on here by some posters.

Any tips on getting them to do chores. If I ask for help it often works but very hard to get any kind of routine chores delegated without A LOT of input!

I started by showing dc the idea that we were all a team in the house and we need to work together. So when they were young it was, "ok everyone. Let's get everything tidied away as quickly as possible". As they got older, then it was "you clear up and you hoover, you wipe the table and you wipe the fridge"
Now that they're older it's "no Xbox or phone til all your chores are done" then I remind them what their chores are!

They're normal kids and still need to be cajoled and nagged.

I think you are right - there is a difference between abuse and unhelpful parenting styles and it gets in the way of decent discussion. If parents feel they will be labelled abusive they are more likely to be defensive and less likely to reflect - we are only human.

Severity, intensity and frequency are important.

Me shouting at my toddler and frightening him would be emotional abuse if that was my everyday parenting - but as a once every couple of years occurrence it’s just a bad day and mitigated by the rest of the time (I hope) that I’m a calm, stable and kind parent. It’s not good it happened at all, but it’s not abuse.

I agree!! Completely.

It is indeed. I guess that’s only a problem if you replicate unhelpful or harmful patterns from your own experience of childhood without thinking. I had to work hard to be different as my parents caused me unintentional harm.

I think ‘I am doing my best and I did my best’ are really good parenting mantras. We all do make mistakes for sure!

Any tips on getting them to do chores. If I ask for help it often works but very hard to get any kind of routine chores delegated without A LOT of input!

I go with the DDP method of a 30 second scold with anything dangerous or harmful. In a very firm loud voice (that I try not to use too much so it’s quite a shock) - ‘Don’t hit your brother! We don’t hurt each other! If you are feeling cross you use words!’ Then I repair by calming my voice and asking what happened and then a logical consequence like saying sorry, doing something kind to put it right, time away to calm bodies down. On a good day!! On a bad day not so much 😂 We are allowed bad days.

I think sleep training takes many forms and leaving a baby to cry until they throw up is abusive BUT if it’s that or throttle them because you are on your last legs it’s essential. I think it very much depends on the parent, the child and the circumstances. I co slept (in a bedside cot then the same bed when older so I could BF in the night without getting up). We then waited until DC were ready to go to their own room. It worked for us. But if I’d been a single parent and had to go back to work it wouldn’t have worked for us. It’s about what happens most of the time. If the baby’s emotional needs are met most of the time then ignoring crying at night is probably not going to detrimental.

It’s shades of grey rather than black and white I think. As with most things to do with humans.

Mostly, how we parent is a reflection on our own personality. I've never punished my kids and often people are surprised at that. It didn't start out due to any strong beliefs I had regarding punishments but because firstly, it seemed a lot of effort and secondly, it just seemed like it didn't make sense to me.
Is that gentle parenting?
That doesn't mean I'm a slack or a permissive parent and in many ways, I'm quite strict.
My dc have chores, they're expected to do their best at school, they're expected to have good manners, I explain why I have such expectations and what the benefits are. I've always tried to foster a good connection and talk about these things.

My dc are resilient and have normal levels of anxiety in normal situations, like before an exam or a test or trying something for the first time. I tell them it's normal and everyone feels nervous in such situations.

I feel like I've tried my best but time will tell. I think we all make mistakes as parents as we're all humans but I just parent in the way that just comes naturally to me, as I'm sure most people do.

I think there's a huge difference between expecting your children to reply politely when you run into someone in Tesco, and expecting them to stand in front of the world's media in Downing Street.

I think Starmer is doing the right thing by keeping his work and family as separate as possible.

I don't hit my kids and never have. And I never want to as I don't actually agree with it. I'm just saying it is not in the same level as actual child abuse. It's insulting to those actually abused to insinuate a smack when a child is really naughty is the same as regular beatings and nasty insults.

Even if we take smacking out of it, these days just shouting at a child is abuse. Putting them in time out is abuse. It's all ridiculous. Mums and dads just don't know how to parent properly because if they're not absolutely perfect, they're supposedly messing their kids up for life. Which is why parents are so soft these days.

You only have to read half the comments on this site saying if a father so much as raises his voice at a child they're abusive and the mum should leave him. And if the mum loses her shit sometimes she needs therapy. It's mad.

I have scrolled through this partly as there is so much to read and partly cos I have COVID and my brain is not at its best.

I feel very strongly that there is a complex web of influences on how people parent. The socio economic situation they are in, the stability of their life, housing etc. The way they were parented, where they lived, how old they are when they become parents ...

I was a product of 70s/ 80s my parents had very different approaches, dad benign neglect ( he was pre 2nd world war silent generation), my mum a boomer, highly anxious but prone to anger and smacking and both fucked up by their own parents.

I did plenty of running around on the moors, but we were living in West Yorkshire in the late 70s early 80s we were scared of the Ripper (not to mention Jimmy Saville!). So it was probably a bit risky. We were sitting in smoke filled buses, trains and cinemas we were being given a bottle of pop and some crisps and left outside the pub for the day. Yes we were resilient but also reckless and a bit disengaged from other generations.

I have been much more engaged as a parent. I have looked at the kids I have, the person I am and DH is and parented in a different way. Breast fed for years, didn't smack, didn't sweat the small stuff but set boundaries to make them feel safe and seen. Communication is very important and of course fresh air/ access to nature. But not really limited screen use just taught them to be cautious.The kids are late teens and all have their wits about them. Kind, polite, able to converse with adults. The older two neuro diverse and struggled socially at school and yes a bit anxious as dealing with the sensory overload of modern life takes a toll. But I don't believe that their anxiety is pathologised, it is inate. There are a number of people in previous generations of our family who all share similar traits and don't deal with their mental health as well. No one had the tools or the language to help them understand. So alcohol dependency and poor mental health, poor life choices are rife.

My mother had a horrible childhood and has tried to kill herself numerous times since she was 12. My kids have been supported, allowed to express their feelings and given tools to manage life as best they can. I disagree strongly with the op. Well meant as I am sure it is.

I do agree that gentle parenting has become confused with permissive parenting. I utilise alot of techniques from gentle parenting.

I inform my child why a behaviour is wrong I am warm and loving. I use terms like "I have asked you three times to take your bowl to the table and you are not listening to me. Take you bowl to the kitchen" in a firm but not shouting voice.

I have also read that you shouldn't praise a child as it dampens their inner pride but positive reinforcement has been the best thing for my sons behaviour. He will now go and spend 20 minutes building his lego and come and show me with a big proud smile and I reinforce that by saying he has done brilliantly. You could compare that to our adult life where a supportive boss makes for happy emoyees so why wouldn't I use that tool.

However aspects of it are not workable with my child for example what is the natural consequence for hitting his baby brother? One could argue the natural consequence is to hit the child to show them how it feels. However I will not hit my child so for me a punishment of a time out breaks the behaviour and works for us. All the gentle parenting approaches i previously tried like talking about emotions lead to more hitting.

I have said to friends that I use time outs and they are agast and almost consider it abuse. Similar to the arguments surrounding sleep training. It's compared to abuse on here by some. I see these comparisons as almost downplaying actual abuse which is massively detrimental to mental health.

So I don't follow one 'style', I parent as I see best and my 4 year old is very well balanced, confident and happy little boy who is great with his brother and all issues with hitting have gone.

I think there is more than one cause of anxiety increasing in children. The main issue I have with the 'its the parenting disrupting development' is that I know lots of families where only one child has anxiety and not the other. I know parents treat children differently, but normally their stance on things like playing out unsupervised is consistent.

So you are doing gentle parenting and are raising a securely attached child. Gentle parents have to raise their voice at those times too. Building a secure attachment doesn’t mean never losing your cool and never shouting. It doesn’t mean giving the child complete freedom.

The problem is that people see passive parenting and assume it’s deliberate.

Also it’s really hard, if you had authoritarian parenting and you want to be authoritative and build a secure attachment relationship, to know how - what does that look like? Add in the observer effect when you think someone is watching and judging you and it’s really hard.

Also I think we see snap shots of parenting and make generalisations. One of my worst parenting fails was shouting at my overtired hungry toddler who had thrown himself on the ground in a supermarket. I was over tired and hungry too. Anyone witnessing it would have thought I was a horrible aggressive inpatient parent. They didn’t see the rest of my day or week where I was the opposite. Or the time when I was distracted and he fell and hurt himself - I’d be labelled neglectful. The mum we see on her phone, not noticing bad behaviour might have just had a message her dad has died. We just don’t know.

I think making generalisations based on snap shots is unhelpful. I think labelling these snap shots as ‘modern parenting’ or ‘gentle parenting’ is over simplifying and over generalising.

@combinationpadlock

I can't agree with you more. Especially pathologising normal everyday worries as "anxiety".

Child centered can go wrong. Yes to centering your child's needs but they should only be given age appropriate decisions and their wants aren't always going to be good for them.

For example I'm cynical about the waiting for the child to want to potty train trend. A 2 year old isn't capable of considering the longer term consequences of being in nappies, obviously they are going to want to stick with what's convenient. A responsible adult needs to take the lead here because it's too big and serious a decision for a toddler.

The realistic expectations of different ages is the part of gentle parenting I like. It seems to be the first thing some gentle parents ditch from the examples here.

Ok. So I don’t understand what your issue is with gentle parenting. It sounds like you aren’t smacking, threatening or shouting and sounds like you talk to her in a reasonable clear and direct way. I assume you are are also warm, empathic and loving. That’s gentle parenting?

The gentle parenting you are describing is not gentle it’s passive parenting. Child centred and child focused doesn’t mean child dictated.

I think this is the issue. Gentle parenting has become synonymous with passive parenting. Low boundaries and high warmth is as detrimental as high boundaries, low warmth (authoritarian) - all kids need boundaries delivered consistently within a warm loving relationship.

Ignoring poor behaviour is not good for anyone.