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Is modern parenting damaging to kids?

383 replies

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 18:47

My friend’s husband is a professional in the area of child development and education. He’s taught at numerous schools, SEN schools and is now a researcher. He doesn’t have children, but I do, and yesterday we were talking about the seeming increase in children with anxiety, mental health issues and what he described as ‘delayed adulthood’.

He’s British but his extended family are from India, and he said visits to see them make a striking contrast between how our children are raised and how theirs are raised. He said children are sort of left to run around in packs and find their own amusement from quite a young age, and as a result they seem more mature and confident.

His theory is that we are interrupting normal development opportunities for kids brains, and therefore they’re not properly developing. He thinks we intervene too much in perfectly ordinary learning opportunities, like playground disagreements, and our quest to make sure our children never feel challenged or upset is actually making them more anxious.

He also thinks softer, more modern punishments are bewildering children and reinforcing bad behaviour, leaving them confused about right and wrong. Children read facial expressions, so seeing us look calm/unbothered rather than angry/disappointed when they’ve done something wrong is counterproductive and blocks them from naturally learning human behaviour and socialisation.

I’m not professing to be a perfect parent at all, but it was a really interesting chat and I want to discuss it further!

OP posts:
Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:01

LightStar2022 · 07/07/2024 19:55

So am I, PepermintPorpoise and I agree - that is a big part of my work too. Colleagues in university counselling departments say they are shocked with the lack of resilience among students, and even staff. I really worry about the direction we’re going in.

A couple of my friends are ‘in therapy’ for… what would objectively be called quite low level life stresses. From what they’ve said they’re not actually that upset but having mentioned it once or twice to others they’ve been encouraged to ‘get counselling’ so they dutifully have.

OP posts:
Namechange6485 · 07/07/2024 20:00

summershere99 · 07/07/2024 19:11

One of my DCs spends an awful lot of time playing outside with the neighbours - running between houses and gardens and over the road to the park. I'm really pleased she has this opportunity because I know, from chatting to other parents who don't live near us, that this is not very common now. In fact, a few were really surprised that she does 'play out' every day after school.

I do think it does teach them great social skills and how to co-operate and how to solve problems and to make up after an argument.

But I know this is very dependent on where you live. And how 'safe' you feel your area is.

We luckily live somewhere where it would be safe to do this (at the end of a 20-year-old estate on the edge of a village, hardly any traffic, near two playgrounds, fields and a small wood) and older kids do, so hoping mine will want to in a few years time.

They're currently outdoorsy kids and can spend a couple of hours just playing in a wood (with me supervising from a short, safe distance) so hoping that will continue.

I've always been one to let them take reasonable physical risks (climbing trees, rocks, etc), which I think helps with confidence and resilience. (DC1 has ASD and is quite anxious about certain things, but is also confident in other ways).

GeneralMusings · 07/07/2024 19:59

Schools are awful places at the moment for many children.

Winterjoy · 07/07/2024 19:59

combinationpadlock · 07/07/2024 19:08

Things that damage children most in my opinion are "gentle parenting" and screen time. Also pathologising of perfectly normal nervousness or shyness as a mental health problem is very counterproductive.

Agree, I recently did some work typing letters from child health appointments and while many were outlining real tangible difficulties there were also a lot along the lines of 'little Johnny doesn't talk to new people straight away and lets other children take the lead' and 'little Johnny doesn't like if his usual daily routine is changed without explanation'. Like, no shit sherlock, there's plenty of adults that don't like these things, it's not a medical condition, it's a personality type!

It was sad sometimes as you could practically feel through some of the letters that essentially mum and/or dad had ended up with a child that didn't meet their expectations for the kind of child they had wanted (quiet and introverted rather than outgoing & gregarious), and instead of looking into themselves and getting past that, they had gone looking for some kind of diagnosis with a 'cure' 😔

mollyfolk · 07/07/2024 19:59

I do worry kids are too wrapped up in cotton wool these days. Constant parental supervision can’t be good and I wonder if it has lead to a lack of resilience that causes mental health problems. I also see that (a sizeable minority) of parents are too cautious about physical risk, it just makes children nervous. They have to graze their knees and learn that the world doesn’t fall apart when it happens.

I just can’t believe that raising your kids with firm boundaries that are held with kindness and understanding (this is what gentle parenting technically is) could be a bad thing.

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 19:58

GeneralMusings · 07/07/2024 19:57

I'm not convinced it's parenting.
I think it's a toxic school environment
Increased pressure to constantly perform in school
Lack of income in families
2 stressed full timenparents
Processed food.
Social media

Etc.

The final 2 maybe but I’m fairly certain there is a lot of pressure to study hard and succeed, as well as lack of income, in India and other third world countries.

OP posts:
GeneralMusings · 07/07/2024 19:57

I'm not convinced it's parenting.
I think it's a toxic school environment
Increased pressure to constantly perform in school
Lack of income in families
2 stressed full timenparents
Processed food.
Social media

Etc.

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 19:57

I’m honestly not making this up but twice recently I’ve seen gentle parenting in action and a very unhappy child. Once was today - a local soft play with an outdoor garden with bikes and trikes, with a small cafe attached. Mum and dad were there with a little boy of about 2. He was clearly feeling a bit hangry and burst into tears as they urged him to choose a sandwich, then a snack, then a drink, then handed them all over for him after asking if he wanted ‘to carry’ which CLEARLY he didn’t have the hands to do. He then dropped it all on the floor, cried some more as they asked whether he wanted to pick it up and try again himself while they held up the queue. I thought fgs just choose something, pay for the food and let him eat it! By the time they paid he was howling.

The other time was at the same place a couple of months ago, a lady was there with two small boys and who I assumed was a grandparent. One of the boys was upset about something that had happened in the play area. He must’ve been about 3 or 4, and looked utterly bemused as the mum gave a long and fairly performative speech about personal boundaries, personal space, how nobody has the right to encroach on it, how the other child clearly had abusive parents as they had become an abuser themselves etc. I swear he stopped crying through sheer confusion!

OP posts:
LightStar2022 · 07/07/2024 19:55

PeppermintPorpoise · 07/07/2024 19:40

Yes. As a therapist I am horrified. I'm constantly seeing young patients/teens who dont know its normal to feel bad sometimes so they really fall apart when anything mildly negative happens. Most of my practice with young people is teaching basic resiliance skills these days. Its really sad. They're so dysfunctional and unwell and its all so avoidable.

So am I, PepermintPorpoise and I agree - that is a big part of my work too. Colleagues in university counselling departments say they are shocked with the lack of resilience among students, and even staff. I really worry about the direction we’re going in.

Crazycatlady79 · 07/07/2024 19:50

I am definitely stricter than most of my Mum friends in terms of behavioural expectations and manners, but I also keep home fairly low demand (both my DC are Autistic and have ADHD) and they have a lot more freedom than a lot of children their age (although, they're not out roaming the streets, they play out and I don't monitor every single social interaction nor breath they take).

I probably sound really judgmental, but I see too much wishy washy parenting and badly behaved, ill-mannered children.

However, I'm sure people quietly judge my parenting. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Stillanothernamechange · 07/07/2024 19:47

Having spent most of the last 15 years working with children, mostly teenagers, I’ve long believed that we cause enormous problems by denying them the responsibilities they are ready for and heaping on them responsibilities that they are not ready for.

Currently working my way through Hunt, Gather, Parent by Michaeleen Doucleff (recommended on here) and the different sections of the book pretty much boil down to:

  1. involving children in the tasks of household everyday life
  2. parenting without anger
  3. allowing children autonomy (while maintaining a sense of the child contributing in a meaningful way towards their household or community - yes, including caring for younger children)
I’m finding the anger section particularly challenging, but I’m pretty certain that all the anthropologists who’ve spent time studying the Inuit parenting approach would be able to tell you that ‘gentle parenting’ does not appear to be correlated with bad behaviour in children or psychological problems in adults - quite the reverse.

And yes, there is a wealth of research showing that autonomy in childhood is linked to better outcomes in adult life; the Self-Driven Child by William Stixrud and Ned Johnson might be a place to start. It’s why (among other reasons) we need more traffic restrictions in built-up areas if we want any chance of raising well-balanced, independent future generations (shoot me down now 😁)

baroqueandblue · 07/07/2024 19:46

Hummingbird75 · 07/07/2024 19:25

Kids now are less likely than ever to be smacked, more likely to have a huge variety of toys and activities, awareness of mental health is 20 times what it was when I was little

Children are less likely than ever to be smacked has been conflated with poor mental health oddly op.

Post your evidence.

lochmaree · 07/07/2024 19:45

really interesting thread OP. I wonder about this a lot also as my DC are 4 and 2 and I started out with 'gentle parenting' and was ok at it (I think) when I had one DC but found it much harder with two. Listened to Abigail Shriers book Bad Therapy and it's made me question everything 😂 I didn't feel very 'authentic' when I tried to follow gentle parenting, and I feel much better or more at ease now I just typically follow what our very experienced childminder does.

Generally i think we are authoritative parents, we have firm boundaries and fairly high expectations for behaviour but still lots of love and a reasonable amount of time given to reading and play. But we do expect them to entertain themselves a lot and sort their disagreements out most of the time. They get as much outdoor play as possible, and as little screen time as possible. No hand held screens at all and will avoid these for as long as possible. eldest gets a bit of tv in the evening and youngest typically has none. We expect them to do boring stuff such as long car journeys with limited screens (will use one towards the end if needs be, we are talking 200-300 miles a day so a long time!) They do have Yotos which I think are brilliant.

Yesterday met one of my eldests friends from preschool at the park, and after a while he got bored and his mum got out his iPad for him to watch at the park. it honestly put me off meeting them again outside of preschool as one child having a screen massively changes the dynamic with the others. also seen so many young kids sat in buggies with a phone/ipad, and one the other day was a little girl who can't have been older than 2, walking through home bargains watching tv on a phone.

Roundeartheratchriatmas · 07/07/2024 19:45

Honestly I think it is.

Everything is now so child centric - rather than children fitting in to your life peoples live have to revolve around children.

When I was a kid I was made to behave. If I’d been rolling around in the floor of Waitrose like I saw recently I would have swiftly been made to stand up or removed. Not ignored and allowed to continue it.

Far too much permissive parenting and ignoring bad behaviour.

It teaches children no resilience and they grow up entitled and thinking the world will bend for them.

You see it in the threads on here - the one where the woman was outraged someone made a complaint about her young adult DD at work because she was mucking about giving poor customer service. Which the DD admitted. Still the poster was shocked.

Apparently other people should just put up with bad behaviour and poor standards.

baroqueandblue · 07/07/2024 19:44

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 19:22

My OP didn’t suggest reintroducing corporal punishment?

No, but another of your posts said "Kids now are less likely than ever to be smacked... they seem so much unhappier now." Are you going to deny that you're making that association?

Let me tell you, the physical and emotional abuse I suffered as a child went hand in hand and ruined me for life, despite long years of therapy and self-work. Either you don't understand that because it didn't happen to you and you're happy to implicitly advocate for a return to domestic abuse of children, or it did happen to you to some degree and you're in denial about the ways it shaped you, even if subtle.

In any case, the root of the problem is parents who can't cope constructively with parenting and take the easy (brutalising) option. Children themselves are not the failure in the equation, whatever you've taught yourself to believe.

PeppermintPorpoise · 07/07/2024 19:40

Yes. As a therapist I am horrified. I'm constantly seeing young patients/teens who dont know its normal to feel bad sometimes so they really fall apart when anything mildly negative happens. Most of my practice with young people is teaching basic resiliance skills these days. Its really sad. They're so dysfunctional and unwell and its all so avoidable.

GingerPirate · 07/07/2024 19:39

Well, I don't think most of the kids will be able to properly fend for themselves as adults, so they won't be much grateful for the parenting, when they "burn their nose" coupla times.

InfoSecInTheCity · 07/07/2024 19:37

VitaminX · 07/07/2024 19:16

I have barely seen my 9 year old all day. She's been out with friends going from house to house and all round the neighbourhood. They were here for a bit this afternoon and I threw some snacks at them but she's fairly free range.

I'm not sure she'd be able to have that sort of day in England, which is where I'm from but not where we live. Even if I let her out I suspect she'd have trouble finding a pack of mates whose parents were willing to do the same.

DD is 10 and this year has started knocking on for friends and a little group of them roaming house to house raiding the fridges and hanging out. There's been a massive leap in her independence, she's starting willingly and proactively doing more for herself like making lunch or sorting her clothes rather than having to be nagged for it.

I think that it is important ti allow them to take some risks and to stretch themselves as long as there are appropriate boundaries and safety measures in place. For example DD doesn't have a phone but she does have a watch so I can see whereabouts she is and she knows to come home and check in with us at set times throughout the day so we know she's not 'stretched' too far away.

sosolonglondon · 07/07/2024 19:33

I think phones and social media are a massive part of it.

I also think some of it stems from modern life. Two working parents, constantly juggling, constantly playing catch up in the evening and weekends, never time to relax together apart form the odd holiday or occasion. That breeds anxiety.

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 19:31

Drinkypoo · 07/07/2024 19:28

I can certainly see that we protect kids much more than we used to and that that is likely to be bad for them in some ways. I do wonder though if this idea that parents smooth life over to the extent that kids never experience disappointment/conflict etc is overblown. Surely any kid with a sibling or who goes to school is going to experience conflict and unfairness? Parents and teachers can’t be everywhere.

Interestingly one of the examples he gave was parents intervening in sibling disagreements. Plus parents rushing to school to iron out any perceived unfairness.

OP posts:
Drinkypoo · 07/07/2024 19:29

I think screens and particularly social media are a much bigger issue. They distort life completely.

WellwellwellInever · 07/07/2024 19:28

It’s hugely complex and he’s honed down to a couple of factors. He is not a child Clinical Psychologist, so whilst he has expertise, he’s got a narrow lens.

Drinkypoo · 07/07/2024 19:28

I can certainly see that we protect kids much more than we used to and that that is likely to be bad for them in some ways. I do wonder though if this idea that parents smooth life over to the extent that kids never experience disappointment/conflict etc is overblown. Surely any kid with a sibling or who goes to school is going to experience conflict and unfairness? Parents and teachers can’t be everywhere.

theeyeofdoe · 07/07/2024 19:27

Autumn1990 · 07/07/2024 18:57

Mine are fairly feral and have a significant amount of outside play and are left to explore and mess around without too much intervention. We don’t have any standing water and are away from dangers such as roads or railway lines.
They’ve fallen off things, been pecked and attacked by poultry and now are fairly good at assessing risk. There is brainwashing about certain risks traffic water pigs and cattle (don’t have any of those) but I’ve still got one with sen.
I do think the punishment was better when you just got a slapped leg instead not being able to join in with something or being sent to your room. This isn’t for minor misdemeanours but as I said they’re fairly feral and so were we growing up.

And me!
but I can see the same traits in DH and his mum.
DD however, doesn’t seem to have any anxiety which is sometimes associated with her condition.

CatJammies · 07/07/2024 19:27

I think there is a lot about the modern world which makes parenting really hard, and which is really harmful for kids.

There is definitely truth in the concern that children don’t get enough opportunity for independent play, and specifically for play outdoors. I see an almost pathological fear on social media or children being bored - there is such pressure to make sure they’re always entertained with imaginary play involving their parents, or elaborate toy setups, or screens. Children learn so much from playing without adult intervention, and particularly from having time to play outside which isn’t intensely supervised (obviously you need sufficient supervision for safety, but they need independence too).

And then there is screen time - obviously fine in moderation but so much of the stuff which professes to be for kids is actually intensely harmful - overstimulating, attention span destroying and anxiety inducing.

And then children seem to have smartphones younger and younger these days when I think one of the absolute best things you can do for your child is not let them have access to social media and it’s self esteem destroying horrors until they’re 15 or older.

That said, I don’t think punishment is a solution to anything. Children benefit from firm, loving boundaries which are consistently upheld, but punishment is usually counter productive and harmful.