Is modern parenting damaging to kids?

Either way, whatever the right way is, it’s hard to get the balance right / especially if you don’t live in some rural idyll where all the kids can run wild.

I never really shout at my DC, try to have boundaries and a lot of freedom between those. But say when DC starts being rude to one of my friends, and couldn’t care less what I say to them and keeps it up - what is the answer?

Usually mine has needed little redirection, but lately is pushing the boundaries that to be honest, I find difficult to hold - without absolutely losing my sh&t - which does work in the short term, but seems a weak thing for me to do. It’s a minefield. One that mums are typically blamed for getting wrong too!

60s kid here. We did have much more freedom but had much firmer boundaries. I can't imagine behaving like some kids nowadays, disrupting classes, swearing at teachers, attacking parents, we knew what the consequences would be so most of us were wise enough not to do it.
Children have so much more now, materially,
New toys every week, outings every weekend, eating out, takeaways, things that in the past were an annual treat, as people just didn't have the money to spare. No screens (obviously) and a very small amount of kids TV programmes. We were encouraged to play out and use our imaginations, which we did. Never heard of mental health problems, everyone went to school every day, either voluntarily or frogmarched by the scruff of the neck.
We did as we were told, any backchat and a thick ear was likely. "Gentle parenting" didn't exist. Once we left school we were expected to get a job and pay our way. I messed around at school and didn't do well in my gces. My dad's words still ringing in my ears 50 years on: "you better get a job because we are not keeping you. You will be out the door"
My kids went to school 90s/mid 00s when there was still a modicum of discipline in schools, but the rot was starting to set in slowly by then.
I worry for my grandchildren and what kind of world has been created for them. Knives in schools, lax attitude to drugs, kids in gangs terrorising neighbourhoods. Complete absence of any kind of discipline. Parents too busy on tiktok to actually know or care what their kids are doing.
We reap what we sow, sadly x

I work full time in a professional environment. I'm sure my kids will have rolled on the floor in Waitrose because sometimes I want to roll on the floor.

I'm absolutely knackered working full time and constantly thinking about work. And yeah sometimes I cannot be arsed.

90% of the time I would be an A Grade parent. But 10% of the time I just want to walk off or sit on the floor next to them and let them just have a minute.

The public transport thing is quite a big one I think.

I was getting the bus home the day I started secondary school. Obviously didn't have mobile phones. I remember the first time the bus didn't stop as was too full, then the next one didn't turn up. Was obviously upset, but I walked back to school to use the pay phone (parents always gave me a 10p for this reason!), phoned my parents, but for whatever reason, they wouldn't or couldn't pick me up. Told me to go back to the bus stop and wait for the next one, which I did.

Nowadays, I know several parents whose children have been driven to and from school until at least year 8. They have mobiles, so can contact their parents at the slightest sign of trouble, so no need to work things out for themselves. Can guarantee none will have had to wait an hour+ for a bus home!

Yes over programming and too much extra curricular is an issue in some circles too.

I really worry about this with my son. He’s got no siblings and he’s very “easy” generally. He’s basically never been in trouble in his life! He has lots of friends over and goes to see other children but all parent arranged (he’s 9).

Im aware I sound a bit nuts but I honestly wonder how he’s going to handle adversity later on. It’s not like I can manufacture some!

In my experience, a lot of parents are quite codependent with their children, you only have to look at the mummy and mini-me fashion trends - the difference between parent and friend is too blurred...

I disagree. My friends and I talk a lot about building resilience. I feel like we're the opposite. Pushing pushing pushing. All the extra curricular on the basis it's good for them.

This is very interesting, any tips or books to promote resilience in children?

I was in a shop the other day and a toddler was having a strop, as they do, and the Mum was standing about three feet away repeating frantically: 'Be kind! Be kind Izzy! Be kind!'

🤷‍♀️

Gentle parenting doesn’t mean no boundaries or giving the child all the power. It’s about building a strong attachment and not using fear and shame to manage behaviour.

Research has consistently shown that consistent boundaries and warmth/love are the key things. Passive parenting with high warmth, high boundaries with low warmth aren’t great and no boundaries with no warmth is abuse.

Childhood stress does build resilience as long as it’s not persistent and toxic stress. ACEs are key (adverse childhood experiences) and the more you have the poorer the outcomes.

Context and environment are also influential - school, home environment (access to nature), role models, nutrition.

It’s all quite complex and really can’t be boiled down to if X then Y.

I second this as an eye opening read. Quite alarming really.

As someone who works with preschoolers, and having raised my own children, I do think we are institutionalising our children from babyhood and preventing them from having adult free adventures.

In a nursery situation they are learning from babyhood to follow routines and structure outside of their choosing. They are with their peers a significant amount of time rather than learning from adults and the real world. I see differences in children who are in full day, full week childcare in comparison to those who only come in for a few hours. They aren't seeing the real world when they are in a childcare situation. They aren't getting a chance to be bored because it is constant stimulation and learning. Adult's can't just punish, it has to be done gently threw negotiation. It means the children know they can get away with hitting their friend because the adult will just 'talk to them'. It works fine with some children, but not with all of them. They don't get to do 'real' tasks such as helping with the washing, or cleaning the car, or helping with the shopping in the way they would if they were within a family unit all day.

Older children feel stifled by the constant presence of adults. They want to challenge themselves and their peers, adults step in and stop it. They have an argument and adults immediately step in. They want to chill out and do their own thing but in a childcare/holiday club situation they can't. They have to follow someone elses agenda.

I seriously think we are doing our children a disservice in our quest to keep them safe and occupied. I'm not sure what the answer is because our society is moving further and further away from valuing the family unit over money and production. I think we are going to be seeing the repercussions when we are elderly and this generation is in their 20/30's.

@Rainbowsponge - well yes obviously. My ex's family live in a city so different environment. No pavements, people drive like maniacs and very polluted. Not an environment to be "out in packs" even if they had the inclination.

Parents feel guilty because they are very busy and they overcompensate by not setting firm boundaries for their kids. Gentle parenting might be a good way to patent but people pick the bits that suit them and the whole thing gets watered down. It's not rocket science. Children need boundaries so they know what's right and wrong and they need their parents to show them this. They also need endless love and parents who are physically and emotionally present.
Its OK for things to be difficult sometimes. No one seems to allow children and teens to have any challenges or difficulties. Nothing wrong with sorting out their own friendship battles. Nothing wrong with getting wet occasionally waiting for a late bus. Nothing wrong with going without a treat because you spent all your pocket money. It's OK for no to mean no.

My ex's family are from India. My experience of Indian children doesn't tie up with your friends. In my experience children in India are coddled way beyond anything I've seen in the UK and are completely lacking in independence compared to children here.

Interesting. I don’t really buy this tbh. In my personal experience kids I know might have more help from parents/teachers than I did 30 years ago but there’s still plenty of scrapping. If I intervened in every argument I’d never do anything else!

The problem is, many parents don’t know how to parent. We’re all making it up as we go along.

I’m a parent AND a teacher (secondary). DS1 is AuDHD. I see parents making the same mistakes every day. The worst of these is no boundaries. I mean between parent and child. The child’s feelings are the parent’s feelings, the child’s successes are the parent’s successes etc. This prevents parents and teachers working together to help children with their behaviour, because parents overidentify with their children and become defensive.

Its a huge problem.

Yes, I think it's pretty widely believed intervening too much is interfering with opportunities kids need to learn.

There is a delicate balance to be struck between creating resilience and exposing kids who genuine difficulties (such as neurodiversities) that make coping with things like classrooms hard. Because we musn't forget the damage also done to many children in the past and the adults they became when they were exposed exstensively to stressful contexts that it was just demanded they suck up and cope with on their own. I'm sure it can be hard to make the call though and I do suspect we are doing some kids a disservice by allowing them to avoid things they could reasonably cope with.

I disagree with that.

The things that damage children the most are abusive and neglectful parents. Not screens or gentle parenting.

And a general lack of understanding about neurodiversity at play too.

I think it's just convenient for the govt (well. Past govt) to blame it on parents. And usually mums. And overlook society issues.

Look at any teaching threads to see how awful the environment is now. Or Not Fine In School website.

Don't Just blame mums. Again. I'd almost suspect political motives at play.

What I don't get is that gentle parenting is supposed to be about having realistic and age appropriate expectations of children. Neither of those approaches sounded at realistic for a distressed small child at all. I've never been convinced that a long waffle about feelings is going to do a thing for an upset toddler.