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Is modern parenting damaging to kids?

383 replies

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 18:47

My friend’s husband is a professional in the area of child development and education. He’s taught at numerous schools, SEN schools and is now a researcher. He doesn’t have children, but I do, and yesterday we were talking about the seeming increase in children with anxiety, mental health issues and what he described as ‘delayed adulthood’.

He’s British but his extended family are from India, and he said visits to see them make a striking contrast between how our children are raised and how theirs are raised. He said children are sort of left to run around in packs and find their own amusement from quite a young age, and as a result they seem more mature and confident.

His theory is that we are interrupting normal development opportunities for kids brains, and therefore they’re not properly developing. He thinks we intervene too much in perfectly ordinary learning opportunities, like playground disagreements, and our quest to make sure our children never feel challenged or upset is actually making them more anxious.

He also thinks softer, more modern punishments are bewildering children and reinforcing bad behaviour, leaving them confused about right and wrong. Children read facial expressions, so seeing us look calm/unbothered rather than angry/disappointed when they’ve done something wrong is counterproductive and blocks them from naturally learning human behaviour and socialisation.

I’m not professing to be a perfect parent at all, but it was a really interesting chat and I want to discuss it further!

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 07/07/2024 21:07

I think modern parenting is probably on average less damaging to kids.

To reason:

In the past straight up child abuse as much more common. Kids were locked in rooms, starved, beaten up, cops would consider it a "domestic" and not a problem.

These days if a kid has a bruise it's reported to social services by school, everyone is encouraged to report potential child abuse.

In the past sexual abuse of children was extremely common. Children who talked about it to adults were straight up disbelieved. "Uncle Charlie wouldn't do that sort of thing how dare you say that about him". See all the church child abuse scandals, jimmy savile etc.

It still happens but schools and the police are trained now and are (supposed to) believe the kid and investigate on the basis of what they say.

Serious physical abuse, starvation, broken bones, and sexual abuse are much worse than anxiety.

So I suspect on average parenting now is less damaging to children overall.

Investinmyself · 07/07/2024 21:03

I’m a volunteer girlguiding leader and there’s been a massive change in last couple of years re parents.
We put them in mixed age groups. Some activities it’s do with friends, some it’s do with your group.
The reason is otherwise we end up with a group of 10 year old and a group of 13 year olds and it encourages mixing and making new friends. Given we are in an area where kids go to several secondary schools knowing kids from different schools really helps.
It’s only part of each session in groups, sometimes not at all so still plenty of time to chat to best friends.
We get x needs to be in a group with her friend, y isn’t coming as her friend isn’t coming, we had someone leave as we wouldn’t put two in same group.
Some parents don’t seem to see the bigger picture that micromanaging friends like this isn’t helpful in long run.
Even a few years ago parents wouldn’t dream of emailing brown owl over minor stuff like this now it’s prevalent.

Riversideandrelax · 07/07/2024 21:02

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:55

But it’s all very well saying ‘but that’s not gentle parenting…’ when, in practical terms, everyone that purports to gentle parent has badly behaved children?

Not in my experience. As I said earlier it's the harsh parents who have the terribly behaved children. I've never punished my children and the really well behaved. Never had any trouble at school, other parents all say how well behaved they are and still waiting for all the 'teen issues' with my 17yo that other parents seem to think are normal. I mean the parents in your example may think they are 'gentle parenting' but they really are not!

JaninaDuszejko · 07/07/2024 21:01

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:13

I’m not sure if it makes a difference but they live very rurally on farms.

But a rural childhood has always been very different from an urban childhood. I grew up on a farm in the 70s/80s whereas DH (same age) grew up in a city. Both v ery middle class childhoods. I went to a state school, he went to a private school. I was able to run wild with my siblings over a large area without ever leaving the farm, we would play in the loch, build dens in old chicken sheds out of sight of the house, constantly started fires, went to the shore with my cousins without adult supervision, cycle for miles on quiet roads. Basically my childhood was an Enid Blyton novel without the criminals printing money in a cave. DH seems to have spent his entire childhood watching black and white films on BBC2 (his middle class area definitely didn't have children playing in the streets and he didn't learn to ride a bike until he was a teenager). But we both seem to be functional adults.

There's a lot of worry about social media but as long as your kids have enough real life social interaction then social media is just a tool rather than taking over. It's all about balance, and not fearing the new unnecessarily, the Georgians worried about girls reading too many of the new fangled novels whereas now we think ofthat as a positive thing.

CelesteCunningham · 07/07/2024 21:01

onemorerose · 07/07/2024 20:27

This is very interesting, any tips or books to promote resilience in children?

I have zero scientific backup for this, but I'm guessing: let them fail.

Let them get in trouble for refusing to do their homework, let them forget their PE gear, let them get cold if they refuse to bring a coat (age appropriate obviously, not toddlers!). All those small little fuck ups help them learn and problem solve.

Crumpleton · 07/07/2024 21:00

I'm a great believer in that children should experience boredom, builds character, it seems now for a lot of DC that every waking minute of their day if not in school is filled with some type of club or activity that's been arranged for them.

Children should at times be left to just take a minute and find their own entertainment...or just rest and relax, even as an adult most like some time to just sit and gather their thoughts.

Southlondoner88 · 07/07/2024 20:58

Totally agree and I work in CAMHS, also I have completed research on similar topics. Authoritative parenting has been shown to be the most beneficial for children’s overall wellbeing and development. That’s mixing firm boundaries/ discipline with connection, responsiveness. High demand/ expectations are also part of this parenting style. Not sure about the not letting children play independently but I’m sure he’s onto something, Esther Perel who doesn’t work in child dev but is a genius when it comes to relationships/ families said something similar in her podcast about this, the lack of independent, outdoor play.

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:55

Riversideandrelax · 07/07/2024 20:53

I agree. So much is labelled gentle parenting when it really is not.

But it’s all very well saying ‘but that’s not gentle parenting…’ when, in practical terms, everyone that purports to gentle parent has badly behaved children?

OP posts:
thirdistheonewiththehairychest · 07/07/2024 20:53

You need to read 'The Coddling of the American Mind'

Riversideandrelax · 07/07/2024 20:53

IglooLists · 07/07/2024 20:44

@RosieAway I can relate to this! It's really hard. I generally do try to "gentle parent" although that gets a bad rap on here - but I also think a lot of the examples derided as "gentle parenting" on MN are actually permissive parenting. To me gentle parenting is less about being your child's friend and more about treating them with respect. Gentle parenting should still be authoritative parenting IMO.
But it is really hard to know what to do when they're really pushing boundaries and you don't want to resort to physical violence, but they're not responding to redirection or a firm telling off.... I also just end up losing my shit and it does feel weak. I think it just shows that you've lost control. I don't respect bosses who've lost their tempers and shouted at me, and I don't imagine it inspires respect in my kids when I lose my shit at them either. I'm not sure what the answer is.

I agree. So much is labelled gentle parenting when it really is not.

Poleowia · 07/07/2024 20:51

VitaminX · 07/07/2024 19:16

I have barely seen my 9 year old all day. She's been out with friends going from house to house and all round the neighbourhood. They were here for a bit this afternoon and I threw some snacks at them but she's fairly free range.

I'm not sure she'd be able to have that sort of day in England, which is where I'm from but not where we live. Even if I let her out I suspect she'd have trouble finding a pack of mates whose parents were willing to do the same.

Huh? Of course she could have that sort of day in England! Reading your post I was thinking, yes this sounds like the childhood my kids have - in England. Very normal around where I live in anyway .

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:50

Octavia64 · 07/07/2024 20:42

Kids are a lot more alive than they used to be.

Under 5 death rate

www.statista.com/statistics/1041714/united-kingdom-all-time-child-mortality-rate/

Child death rate over time

stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/mortality/child-mortality/

How much anxiety is one alive kid worth?

I don’t know, what’s the point in life at all if you’re miserable?

OP posts:
Riversideandrelax · 07/07/2024 20:50

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 19:57

I’m honestly not making this up but twice recently I’ve seen gentle parenting in action and a very unhappy child. Once was today - a local soft play with an outdoor garden with bikes and trikes, with a small cafe attached. Mum and dad were there with a little boy of about 2. He was clearly feeling a bit hangry and burst into tears as they urged him to choose a sandwich, then a snack, then a drink, then handed them all over for him after asking if he wanted ‘to carry’ which CLEARLY he didn’t have the hands to do. He then dropped it all on the floor, cried some more as they asked whether he wanted to pick it up and try again himself while they held up the queue. I thought fgs just choose something, pay for the food and let him eat it! By the time they paid he was howling.

The other time was at the same place a couple of months ago, a lady was there with two small boys and who I assumed was a grandparent. One of the boys was upset about something that had happened in the play area. He must’ve been about 3 or 4, and looked utterly bemused as the mum gave a long and fairly performative speech about personal boundaries, personal space, how nobody has the right to encroach on it, how the other child clearly had abusive parents as they had become an abuser themselves etc. I swear he stopped crying through sheer confusion!

Neither of those examples are gentle parenting, tbf

FungusMcEyebrow · 07/07/2024 20:49

I don’t know his to think about this. I could look back at my freewheeling childhood with rose tinted glasses but the truth is that five of the gang of kids on my street died before the age of 35 through drugs or suicide.
Mental health issues are nothing new. Difference today is that people talk about it a lot more. There was no counselling when I was a teen/young adult. I could have done with it! My mother’s mental health issues completely fucked up my teens and I feel sorry for that girl when I look back on my life. I recently read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and it was a real eye opener. So many messed up adults going around who were fucked up by their parents. It’s not a 2020s issue, not by a long shot.

I do think that feelings can be pathologised quickly with young people and it’s up to us to determine the difference between anxiety everyone feels and an actual disorder that impacts day to day functioning.

My 12 yo DS is a sensitive sort but sport was always non negotiable. He’s involved in three different teams and takes the highs with the lows. Deals with disappointment and on the odd occasion he’s not arsed about training, he’s sent along anyway.
He has a phone but it’s very well supervised and we’ve had long chats about potential bullying and dangers on social media.

Ozanj · 07/07/2024 20:48

Anyone who says parenting in India is better is suspect. Most parents don’t have time to parent there. Most kids are left to their own devices (ignored) or punished. No middle ground. This running around in packs is why violent rapes are increasing - as young men are literally picking off women in packs.

itsgettingweird · 07/07/2024 20:45

PeppermintPorpoise · 07/07/2024 19:40

Yes. As a therapist I am horrified. I'm constantly seeing young patients/teens who dont know its normal to feel bad sometimes so they really fall apart when anything mildly negative happens. Most of my practice with young people is teaching basic resiliance skills these days. Its really sad. They're so dysfunctional and unwell and its all so avoidable.

Absolutely.

Kids never feel worried, nervous, unsure.

It's "anxiety".

It's become something "bad" to be worried. Something that needs to have a fuss made. It's become abnormal to feel worried but yet it's a perfectly normal feeling that can be overcome with resilience skills - something else severely lacking in our younger generation.

It's not that I don't believe in anxiety. My own autistic son suffered badly for a period of time with it and was under camhs. But I've also spent a lot of time normalising with him how feeling worried is normal. It's about finding ways to deal with it and overcome it.

I also think it demonises the real struggles for those with actual anxiety if it's a catch all for word for "worried".

IglooLists · 07/07/2024 20:44

@RosieAway I can relate to this! It's really hard. I generally do try to "gentle parent" although that gets a bad rap on here - but I also think a lot of the examples derided as "gentle parenting" on MN are actually permissive parenting. To me gentle parenting is less about being your child's friend and more about treating them with respect. Gentle parenting should still be authoritative parenting IMO.
But it is really hard to know what to do when they're really pushing boundaries and you don't want to resort to physical violence, but they're not responding to redirection or a firm telling off.... I also just end up losing my shit and it does feel weak. I think it just shows that you've lost control. I don't respect bosses who've lost their tempers and shouted at me, and I don't imagine it inspires respect in my kids when I lose my shit at them either. I'm not sure what the answer is.

Curlewwoohoo · 07/07/2024 20:44

This is so interesting. I feel pretty powerless to do anything about it though?

Octavia64 · 07/07/2024 20:42

Kids are a lot more alive than they used to be.

Under 5 death rate

www.statista.com/statistics/1041714/united-kingdom-all-time-child-mortality-rate/

Child death rate over time

stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/mortality/child-mortality/

How much anxiety is one alive kid worth?

palomatoast · 07/07/2024 20:40

I frequently see mums where I live walking around holding the hands of their teenage daughters. It always surprises me as at that age I think I would have rather dropped dead. The infantilising approach to parenting is ultimately quite selfish. Your teenager is supposed to find you boring and annoying, they're supposed to want to venture out with their friends not stay at home with their mum. It's part of growing up!

One of my friends was really babied by her mum and ended up dropping out of uni in the first term as she was so homesick. She lived at home until she was 28 at which point she met her now husband. We're in our late thirties now and she still deals with quite bad anxiety which I'm sure is because she was so coddled as a child.

llamadrama16 · 07/07/2024 20:39

I find this such an interesting subject! From my eldest’s (7yo) peer group there seems to be a correlation between children who are allowed ‘online freedoms’ (unrestricted YouTube access, some access to SM etc) and higher anxiety. Compared to my own child and other friend’s kids who are allowed more freedom in the real world, who are all quite self sufficient kids, are confident and have a level of competence the ‘iPad’ kids don’t exhibit. I’m not sure if I’ve worded this correctly!
I know when I spend too much time on TikTok listening to how dangerous London is becoming my anxiety spikes, but my actual experience of living in London is that it’s much the same as it’s always been. If I can let that fear in as a 30 something, a teen is going to be so much more susceptible. We plan on not giving our kids smart phone until their mid teens, they don’t need the internet in their pocket.

itsgettingweird · 07/07/2024 20:38

GeneralMusings · 07/07/2024 19:02

Dr naomi fisher is also worth a read.

Much about school is much stricter and structuret han it was when I was a kid.

I love Naomi Fisher.

veritusverity · 07/07/2024 20:38

I always used to think an adult was the product of 50% nature and 50% nurture. However as I get older I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion it's 75% nature and 25% nurture.
All kids are different, the skill of the parent is responding to their child in the most appropriate way for their child. I have one easy teen, and one errr more challenging! They've both come from the same gene pool, but some genes have come out stronger from grandparents and parents, resulting in two very different personalities!
I don't like the term 'separation anxiety' I think it's trying to pathologise something which is a perfectly natural response for some children, who aren't ready to be away from their parent / care giver; other children are absolutely ready and enjoy being away from their home! I don't understand why we insist in the 'one size fits all' and have to start making it an issue, when some kids don't 'fit the standard'.

I also think the increase in anxiety is like the increase in ASD and ADHD, we just recognise it more, and take it seriously (which is a good thing), I remember at my school one of my friends being told they were an attention seeking so and so, when they started self harming...they finally took their own life at 15Sad. I'd like to think we're better at understanding mental health now, than back in the 70/80/90s.

GeorgeElliotsPen · 07/07/2024 20:37

Interesting reading! I feel the same having been on a WhatsApp group recently for children doing Duke of Edinburgh expeditions. The worrying! The concern! The helicopter parenting! These children are 14 not 4!

There was one parent who clearly felt the same and did a parody anonymous post. It was hilarious.

But seriously, I was concerned for some of these children whose parents were so over worried about their weekend away. This was in the Peak District in June, not the Scottish highlands in January!

itsgettingweird · 07/07/2024 20:37

I work with young people and have done for years.

I agree with him.

Children who use SM so much nowadays don't see a human response to their words. They don't experience so much what affect their behaviour and words have on others. When they do they haven't learned how to manage that.

All behaviour is communication - however I find there's more increase in using it to excuse poor behaviour rather than "I understand you were cross but you can't hit X". Then working on helping the child respond appropriately to upset.

I've actually watched parents witness their child hurt another but when their child cried at what they've done actually deny it and gaslight everyone around them into feeling sorry for their child. It's nuts!

Learning to risk assess teaches resilience which is a necessary life skill.