To think LTB is not as simple...

Why is childcare only based on the woman’s income? It should be 50/50 at the very least

It's not but the point is, you may be financially worse off as a family having kids in childcare. We were, which is why I did stop working for a while. Thats what I mean- it's easy to say dont give up your job! but if you cant afford to keep it then you cant afford it and all the warnings in the world arent going to change that.

My friend had her parents look after her son whilst she was at work so that helped her but we didnt have that option- hence it being very individual.

No, it isn't. No-one said it was.

I privately suspect a LOT of posters who jump to ‘leave him! Leave him!’ are overlooking a few things in their own relationship for a multitude of reasons they would never share on here…

DP does things that drive me nuts, and me him. I don’t want to leave him but even if I did (in a kind of indifferent way), would it be worth selling our house, being forced to buy on in a rougher area for affordability, my children therefore changing schools, and all that shit just so I could be single and date other men? Nah

I agree too OP. I made the right decision to leave my ex husband but fuck me, he made my life pure hell for two years. I eventually reported him to the police, cut every method of communication, ended relationships with mutual friends/family who enabled him to continue his abuse, and I demanded that our only contact going forward was through lawyers. I got a court order including a childcare agreement that he’s never once stuck to.

He still makes my life as difficult as possible six years down the line. He barely has anything to do with our children (just like when we lived together). I’ve been told by many naïve posters on here “just tell him to……just force him to…..etc” as though you can force an adult to do anything. He pays me zero child maintenance (people on here assume CMS will force him but there’s loopholes and CMS are toothless enablers). It’s really not as simple as LTB, especially when there’s children involved.

Years ago under an old name in one of my very first posts I gave some actual ideas for working through an op's argument. I was actually laughed off the site and left for a while. It has always felt to me that the MN way is to LTB.

Most LTB responses I have seen are in response to cheaters (who are probably going to leave on their terms anyway) or to massive red flags signalling abusive partners - often when pregnant or just had a baby. LTB isn't just a throw away comment, it can be life saving advice.

My point is that not putting up with a useless man doesn’t mean that you’re expecting perfection.

YANBU no. Unfortuntely though, the reality for women who can't afford to run a house on their own is that they are stuck with this type of man. And the men know it.

Why is childcare only based on the woman’s income? It should be 50/50 at the very least.

It also seems short sighted giving up your career, future potential earnings, pension etc when the most expensive years of childcare are short in the long run.

If time is on someone’s side, I appreciate that isn’t always possible but if it is, it can also be an option to not have 2 in nursery at the same time.

Useless and perfect are at complete opposite sides of the spectrum so I'm not sure what your point is?

I take your point, OP. I would say though that posters who write about some really heartbreaking stuff are wanting to hear their options and LTB is always one of them. Sometimes it's validation of their rant- that's needed and other times, the situation is so bad that they'll read/take the advice that's offered.

It's not always easy to leave. Sometimes though it is - at the end of it - the only viable option and it is always an option to pick 'least bad'. I read some threads here and wonder how the poster gets out of bed in the morning with that life hanging over them. I know that I couldn't - but as you say, that is with my own circumstances (financial) overlaid onto and OP's situation. Very, very difficult and very different if strictly applied to the actual scenario an OP is faced with.

I do though wonder about OPs from various threads and wonder how they're getting on. If they never post back I hope that they were successful in getting out and are now doing much better.

Never give up you job' advice probably falls into the same category - easy to say, harder to do. Ok, 'giving up' your job completely is a bit extreme, but unless you're fairly privileged or lucky, most parents will struggle to maintain two full time jobs

Yes, I feel this is another "easy to say" but when you have to pay for childcare and the childcare costs end up being more than you are actually earning sometimes you cannot stay in your job because you are losing money every month. Sure it might be worth a small loss for a few years but not everyone can afford that and if you have more than 1 child it's really hard. I have two kids and I remember when they were little, early childcare costs were almost double the cost of our mortgage per month!! I have no family to help out and neither does DH so its not "easy" for everyone.

'Never give up you job' advice probably falls into the same category - easy to say, harder to do. Ok, 'giving up' your job completely is a bit extreme, but unless you're fairly privileged or lucky, most parents will struggle to maintain two full time jobs with foot on the career accelerator when children come along. Whether it's good advice depends on circumstances. At the extreme of course it's completely appropriate , just like LTB is.

News flash!!

Just because people give advice doesn't automatically mean any op acts on it.
We are mostly grown up women on here! We won't leave our dp because someone on mn told us too.
It's just useful to get advice, a sense of perspective sometimes etc

I agree there’s no point reprimanding women when it’s too late and I can see how women fall into this pattern.

But there’s still a shocking amount of rhetoric on here about “you’ll never get the time back,” and “why have kids just to farm them out to someone else,” etc etc. Guilting women for trying to safeguard their independence. Making them feel that the loss of their financial independence is a reasonable price to pay for a couple of extra years of looking after small children. So many short termist and backwards attitudes to this still.

There are situations where it makes sense for women not to work when their children are small but they need to come with a very clear health warning and a lot of insurance (mandatory marriage for starters). And there has to be an exit strategy.

And to be honest even if you are going to be hard up and struggling financially it’s still very rarely worth staying in an unhappy relationship for. Women can leave, even if they don’t work, and they should be empowered to do so if they need to.

This thread isn’t actually about OP wanting to leave though.

If just one woman reading considers not giving up their career, it’s absolutely worth mentioning.

Expecting a man to not be useless is far from expecting perfection.

Even the never give up your job thing............. I didn't want to but he earned more than I did and I got coerced into that. so while I agree it's good advice, I think ti's better on these threads not to reprimand women for not having been smarter and more assertive five years ago.

Yeah it's this isnt it? If someone is genuinely at the end of their tether and utterly miserable what else are people supposed to say?

Well it will be too hard to leave so you'll just have to put up with it forever?

I agree LTB is easy to say but if someone is desperately unhappy and living with a selfish dickhead its not really realistic to say he's going to magically change is it so what exactly would you advise people say?

@jeaux90

This is why women need to put career and financial independence first, every time.

Thank you. In stone tablets. Never give up your job. It could be the one thing that allows you the freedom you need.

YANBU
Though I think it’s harder to leave if you have a nice lifestyle? Lovely cars, holidays, homes, hobbies, fillers/botox/hair/clothes etc a close friend of mine, low paid job, health issues with eyesight but nothing major, no PIP just gets a free bus pass.
Mid priced house, nice area. Had lots of work done to it, partly down to her partner’s line of work. He’s got a good salary and gets cash in hand.
They split. He’s self employed. Pays £30 a week maintenance. She claims UC. She did get part of the equity but had to buy a two bed, in a run down area, out of town, has to bus it or walk everywhere. Makes it hard to walk the child to school and then walk to work (or catch two buses). Easier now child can get to school herself.

Friend two. He had a well paid job and said if you go for maintence or my pension I’ll go for custody. DV - but nothing reported to the police. So she takes no maintenance. She was lucky her DM gave her £100k, I also gave her £15k for a car and a holiday. So she’s same area, three bed small home, tiny garden, instead of five bed, 3 reception, same lifestyle give or take etc.

Both took a few years to get on their feet. The former regrets the split. Hasn’t met anyone. Wants her partner back- he’s now with someone else. (They split because he was tight with cash and he said they were more friends than lovers).

The latter is single, 50 and happy. But without that cash injection from her mum, her child wouldn’t be able to go to the school he wanted, she would be looking at renting, she couldn’t afford a car. She also claims UC but is looking for full time work.

Depends how bad things are imo. The key is not relying financially on a man and having a decent education - but in abuse cases and where there are children this is very hard to navigate. I work for the local authority so work with people from more impoverished areas than most on here I imagine. Of course some are lucky and fall on their feet, meet another man, work hard, study, have parents to help. Each case is unique.

Every situation is different. We dont have a big house or swanky life. Iv always worked in case something happened to dh or we didn't work out - yes I'm horribly pessimistic and plan for the worse as seen too many women trapped by money in bad marriages or left in a mess if dh ups and disappeared.

When people come on to MN saying DH insults me, doesn't do anything round the house, demands sex, ignores the children etc etc what do you expect people to advise? A lot of women in this position ask for advice on how to deal with this situation as they can't afford to leave. I don't think it's that people think it's an easy option to leave, more that the DH is unlikely to change whatever the woman does, so what are we left with?

EXACTLY. I was in denial. I was telling myself, what is happy anyway? Who is happy? I told myself that if I left, I'd be replacing one set of problems for another. Life is hard, relationships are hard. When I started a thread, many years ago now, I half expected the consensus to be ''no stay for a while, you're a family unit now, you've made your bed'' but even though I'd only detailed a tenth of the worst of it, there was a resounding consensus ''you must leave!'' and that was shocking. It pierced my denial. That was in April and I left in July. So just because posters don't leave the moment the thread sinks out of active, that doesn't mean that their denial hasn't been pierced. It's a process.

STRENGTH to anybody who knows they have this ahead of them.

This is why women need to put career and financial independence first, every time.

There is always choice if you earn well. Time and again I see women on here getting royally shafted after being a SAHM and having no way of running a house now clean breaks are the norm in court.