To think this isn’t 3 hours of work?

That's ridiculous. My cleaner (who is amazing) does a decent clean of the (small) kitchen and bathroom, hoovers everywhere, mops hard floors, dusts the living room and cleans windows and mirrors in two hours. Three bed house.

When we have cover they usually manage everything except the windows.

Pay them. Don’t have them back and leave a 💩 review

Looking at it objectively, the person making the enquiry should have raised concerns a lot sooner. I accept it may not have been practical to have visited the property often, depending on all sorts of factors, but OTOH the cleaners reported to the letting agents, who were happy with what was being done.

Again as I've said before, the crucial part was knowing what the cleaners were walking into on each clean - I have and have had many clients where I clean their home, so to speak, that is to say I clean their "building", whereas with others it really is very much a case of I go into clean up "after" the client, and the "building" as is doesn't get that much attention.

Ultimately, if anyone is unhappy, they can complain to me about it, but above all they can very much ask me never to go back. I only ever charge for the work I do (a set price per client) never the time spent doing it, so if ever there's complaint about the quality of the work (and thank God in two decades I can count on one hand the complaints) it is much easier to pin-point & resolve.

Have you questioned with them the the amount of work done vs length of time they spent at your house? That's probably where I'd start

(edited for spelling )

I understand the point of contract law.

but honestly, the rest of it just seems really sad.

The part which impeded his case was the fact that he'd not paid for the cleaning, the letting agent had, and therefore the contract was between cleaning company and the agent.

His complaint about the cleaning would therefore have to be against the letting agent, as it was they who took the money off him for the cleaning service they'd arranged on his behalf.

If this were not the case, and he had paid for the cleaning directly, he would have been in a position legally to complain, though the fact that he'd allowed the service to be repeated for as long as he had before complaining about it wouldn't gone in his favour (we were talking a number of years in this case).

As for the report, the organisation I was carrying out work for was totally independent, and the fees quoted (I think around the £250 mark, this being at least six years ago) had to cover travel time, travel costs, and the person's time who visited. The organisation was very keen not to carry out such a report, given that the crucial factors to the complaint about the standards (as I mentioned previously) could not be proven, therefore was could be reported on would only be what he could see for himself. Added to which, the invoices had been based on the time spent on site, and he was happy with that side of it.

His eventual conclusion with me at least was that it wasn't worth the costs involved in making a complaint where the evidence to back it up was missing, with an acknowledgement that no matter how "bad" the property was now in terms of its cleanliness, one could only dread to think about how much worse it may have been had no one gone in to clean at all.

Is my understanding right that he was impeded from making a complaint by the high cost of a report being compiled? 😬 that would really not go down well in a Court (or in people’s opinions surely)

to the OP, even as a solicitor I can say sometimes people do the moral thing, I would speak to them and see what they have to say.

@Amimaimia I must apologise as I didn't mention your excellent point of I don’t think the rate being lower than some other contracts changes the law on it either, but yes may make it not worth the fight.

What you have said is entirely correct; the price paid does not affect the right to complain in law, however, it does severely impede how practical something is to take forward.

I am reminded of a time (several years ago) when I was carrying out work for an organisation, totally separate from my cleaning service, and a member of the public emailed in to ask if someone could go out and perform an evaluation of the cleanliness of the property he'd been renting out, as he was very unhappy with the work done by professional cleaners, over a period of several years.

It transpired that the letting agent had arranged the cleaning, had deducted the fee from the rent they paid to their client (the person I was dealing with), and paid a cleaning company of the letting agent's choice to do the cleaning each week, in a property that was tenanted.

I remember having to tell this person that unfortunately, the first and by far biggest obstacle to overcome was the fact that the letting agent was the one who'd paid for the cleaning, and therefore it was them who the contract with. The fact that the agent then deducted the fee from the client was neither here nor there.

That aside, all I could say I could do was report on what I saw on the day of the visit - what I really needed to know was what state the place was in each time the cleaners went, as this would massively impact what was done, and furthermore, would need to know how much time was spent clearing up after the tenants as opposed to cleaning the building per-se, and how much time went on cleaning things the tenants took with them (such as vacuuming a tenants sofa rather than washing the landlords windows).

But not withstanding any of this, when I advised how much it was going to cost him to have a report complied, he rapidly realised none of it was worth the hassle, given the unlikleyhood of getting any money back. Interestingly, what was never in dispute in any of it was how long the cleaners had spent there - they were charging per-hour and he was happy with the evidence he had that they'd been going for the time charged for.

If you’re paying them for hours worked I don’t see how you’d argue it tbh

I mean that if they stayed for the time they are charging, and work was done, then it's much, much harder to complain about the quality of / quantity of work done, than it is if nothing was done at all.

It could be they were not very attentive, and "playing with their phones".

OTOH, if your area of working is the cleaning industry, then you'll know as well as I do that cleaning a bath can be a broad spectrum, given the condition of it and the state it's in. Most baths on a regular clean can be cleaned with a damp cloth and some washing-up liquid, but where people have used bath-bombs & other delights, you can massively increase the time and effort factor.

Added to which, this isn't the OP's regular property - it's a new-to-them, and under these circumstances I've had to clean some right filthy baths, sometimes having to fill them with water & leave to soak with biological washing powder.

Point is, there are so many "if", "buts", and "maybes" surrounding the work.

I can see failings on both sides here (and if the cleaners didn't see the house before agreeing to clean it, then there's even more blame I would level at their door), but the the OP didn't fully agree what she'd be getting for certain either.

I suspect using cleaners may be new to the OP, and I'm even more sure than ever that the cleaning company is wet behind the ears.

I still disagree (it’s also my area of work).

I agree it can be difficult to prove subjectively what is worth it and what isn’t.. and for that hassle might be worth the OP just paying.

Perhaps you mean you can’t necessarily pay less due to quality of the work if they have indeed been working those hours, which I see your point. But I think the poster is saying they simply did not work those hours as not enough was done. I don’t think they just took three hours to physically do what was listed, they were probably just sat playing on their phone or chatting for most of it, in which case, I can’t see it’s reasonable you’d have to pay.
I don’t think the rate being lower than some other contracts changes the law on it either, but yes may make it not worth the fight,

My cleaner is here for 3 hours each week and does my 5 bedroom, three bathroom house including a wipe down of kitchen cupboards, cleans all toilets and showers, does a really thorough dust, skirting boards, vacuum and mop, and a large, glass bifold door. It is easier to keep on top of cleaning rather than going into an unclean house to do a one off clean. But I would have expected your cleaners to do a lot more in the time they were there.

You should have agreed what they’d get done in a time frame rather than just paying per hour. I’d just pay and chalk it up to experience unfortunately

Contact them, tell them what you are willing to pay and that u won't be paying further. They wound take u to court for £69. And that you will be leaving an honest negative review of their skills and their management. Cheeky cows.

I agree. If you pay them for one hour each you have the aggravation and bad feeling to save just £23?!

Pay them and forget them.

😅

Gosh, I'm pleased I do my own cleaning!! I didn't think I would ever say that.

@Crumpleton By them suggesting they come back the next day I'd have took that as they knew what little work they had achieved and were pulling a fast one.

That is one possibility. A more generous take would be mine, and that is it lack of experience. Cleaning businesses start up & close down all the time. The fact these people didn't agree to a set amount of time OR an agreed task list, as opposed to both, smacks of lack of experience, based on my time in the industry.

It’s unlikely they would take you to court for £69. Pay them what you think they earnt and explain why your not paying the full amount.

They did 3 man hours between them at £23 an hour so technically it was a full £69 owed, if you're unhappy with the work done I'd message them and ask how it took them so long to do so little and you require an updated invoice which reflects the standard of work.

Did they leave their bank details for you to BACS the payment over?

By them suggesting they come back the next day I'd have took that as they knew what little work they had achieved and were pulling a fast one.

There are many people that advertise for cleaners locally and most state must be a singular cleaner, no agencies or family/friend recommendations.

no i give em half that and tell them why but should have complained at the time really

It's not me thinking it, it's how it would be defined in law. It is my job to know this.

While sitting down doing nothing would be a lot easier to argue against, the fact that work was carried out makes it very, very hard to complain about, given that the nature of the work is so subjective, and the price charged for it (compared to what you'd pay a builder or mechanic etc.) is much lower.

Pay the £69 and move on, it's really not worth the potential agro imo

Really surprised by the pps who think that just being in attendance means you have to pay their hourly rate. If they sat in the kitchen for 3 hours eating biscuits do you still pay them?? It’s an implied term of the contract that they do a reasonable job…. Maybe they couldn’t do all you listed but is it reasonable what they have done? Doesn’t sound like it so I think you lower the payment to reflect that.