To actually feel sorry for the woman driving the car in the Wimbledon car accident

I doubt this was the first indication that she had an illness. I wouldn’t be surprised if she ignored the signs to keep driving. If she had an idea and kept driving then that’s diabolical. There needs to be a proper review.

You’d have to search because I’ve seen a couple of articles published when it first happened. One notable one in the Sun newspaper. It wasn’t the parents or the teachers calling her out, it was the newspaper itself, in their usual style trying to whip up public sentiment for a non existent issue. If I can find it, I’ll link to it.

An example of your bias. The driver is not going to go on to live an untrammelled life, like the driver in my case she is going to have live with the trauma of this experience for the rest of her life, just as the parents of the dead children, the other families and the teachers involved. To lose a child is most would agree the greatest tragedy you can have to endure but it was traumatic for all who were involved.

If by untrammelled you mean she might one day be able to drive again then that is because there is a national policy designed to be fair for those who experience seizures. The fact that she had the bad luck to be where she was in the car that she was when she had her seizure and it resulted in much more awful consequences than average does not mean she should therefore face a worse outcome under that policy. That would be punitive rather than fair.

I only posted on here because I was involved with a causing serious injury by dangerous driving case where the defence was autoism that was taken to court but resulted in a not guilty verdict. It was an enlightening experience and I therefore now understand the legal framework and could explain the complexity and nuance. In that case the medical evidence was actually not entirely conclusive, less so than it appears from the CPS decision in this case. Thankfully for the driver the case received no publicity so they did not find themselves subject to the sort of ignorant, vindictive, intrusive and emotion driven social media noise and speculation that has manifested itself on here in relation to just one case amongst many where a loss of consciousness has caused a terrible accident. I am quite happy to back up each one of those adjectives.

However quite amused to now see that because I am not with Cheeseball I must be part of a conspiracy. Nope, no vested interest, no personal angle, not employed by her expensive lawyers or PR company. Not commenting from some nefarious brief. Just as others here say, and the majority in the poll, able to take a more objective perspective on the consequences of this terrible tragedy for the family and the driver.

Just for some more nuance I don’t agree the nature of the vehicle is irrelevant. The vehicle demolished a set of metal safety railings before it went through the fence. The sort of safety railings that are outside most schools. Would a mini car of whatever make have demolished those railings even if the driver was having a seizure and had their foot hard on the accelerator, or not at least been slowed? Presumably at some point they were tested to withstand an impact from what would then have been an average car. I don’t know but I think this something the Coroner might well address as part of their public interest brief.

@Rosscameasdoody - actually I’ve been screenshotting my posts (which I’ve never done before) and your accusations are downright lies.

My repeated point is that as the parents, I would feel very, very distressed at the thought of this woman driving again after possibly a very short time. The attitude of some posters sounds really hard-hearted. Of course it was a terrible accident, and not once have I suggested anything else, mentioned epilepsy or advocated punishment.

But it remains the fact that two young girls lost their lives and all the sympathy (in particular yours) seems to lie with the driver and her right to go on to live a life untrammelled by this.

l imagine the thread was started in response to the various articles calling for her prosecution and levelling accusations that she was faking the seizure

Can you share these? I've not see them. This is not what the parents of the dead children are saying or what the head teachers are saying. Who else is 'calling for' anything? It's almost like someone is trying to make out there is a barage of abuse against the driver online but there's nothing that I can see. Is it to try and prove that she wouldn't be able to get a fair trial should it over come to court? Or to get sympathy from a judge that she is being persecuted in some way? This thread is all about trying to make out black is white. Plus some smoke screen shit about Fiat puntos...

And let's not forget that the driver has to come to terms with a condition that very nearly killed her with its first presentation (were it not for the vehicle she drove, she would have been another fatality) and still could easily kill her at any random point in the future, whether she's in the bath, caring for her children, shopping in sainsburys, asleep in bed - anywhere. And beyond taking medication (and hopefully avoiding stress, such as reading oblique threats from randoms on the Internet), there is nothing she can do about it.

My brother was a passenger in a car that was rammed by another car driving in the opposite direction on a motorway. That driver had a massive heart attack, and we told he was probably dead when his car flew towards my brother and his friend´s. Their car was crushed. They are both very lucky to be alive, it could have gone the other way. It was an accident.
This is a horror story. So awful. But we live in a culture where if something happens there must be blame, somebody must be at fault. Well sometimes there isn´t. The most tragic set of circumstances that couldn´t have been foreseen.

Agree. Most people have the capacity to feel sympathy for everyone involved. The children lost their lives, the families are grieving and the witnesses are traumatised. And the driver will have to live with this for the rest of her life. No one has emerged unscathed.

Actually if you look back through the thread some of the most unpleasant posts have been in defence of the children and the bereaved.

You yourself have posted some very unpleasant things, and repeatedly
suggested that it would be ‘immoral’ for the driver to ever get behind the wheel again, despite it being perfectly legal for her to do so once she has been seizure free for the required time.

And this post isn’t exactly unbiased is it ? You’re accusing those of us supporting the driver of having some sort of vested interest. Why is that ? Do you think everyone who supports her is epileptic ? Do you think anyone needs to have a vested interest of some sort to be able to see that if this woman was unconscious at the time due to a medical episode completely out of her control, then the accident was not down to her actions ?

And l remember the post that got you deleted. It was an unpleasant post and was deleted because clearly it crossed the line of what’s acceptable. So for you to post about how unpleasant this thread has been, to my mind is a case of pot, kettle and black.

l imagine the thread was started in response to the various articles calling for her prosecution and levelling accusations that she was faking the seizure.

My response was to a poster who clearly thinks the drivers’ actions were responsible, regardless of whatever medical evidence comes to light, which is why l mentioned culpability. If she was unconscious throughout the event the children didn’t die as a result of her actions, because she didn’t voluntarily take any actions. All she did was to get in the car with the intention to drive to wherever she was going. That alone has prompted some awful responses about rich and privileged people driving ‘tanks’, and banging on about how a smaller car might not have killed anyone, which is utter nonsense when you look at what actually happened, not to mention totally irrelevant as it’s perfectly legal to drive an SUV.

If she was unconscious and oblivious when the crash took place, it’s ridiculous to suggest that she herself killed the children when the fact is that they died because of a tragic set of circumstances which couldn’t have been foreseen at the time she took her last deliberate action of getting in the car and heading to her destination. And which, it should be remembered, could happen to anyone..

This branch of the thread inspired by this bit

What she did was have a medical episode that she could never have anticipated. There was no intent to cause harm on her part, nor negligence.

she has to live with what she did

This is the premise of the thread and something that everyone understands is very horrible.

Because she was in a horrible accident and as a result she’s being publicly attacked by those who think she’s to blame, I imagine.

The pp doesn't say anything about prosecution.

If someone dies through your actions, voluntary or not, you still caused their death. That doesn't necessarily mean it was your fault.

I mean if the woman didn't kill the children then why the sympathy thread?

In twenty years on MN I have never seen name-calling and insults like this on a thread - and I’ve been on the Harry and Meghan threads!!

There are posters who are determined to promote the interests of the driver. Presumably because of a vested health interest or a personal angle. That’s fine - it’s their opinion. But all this stooping to base insults and telling people to shut up or shhhh - usually MN would have rapped them over the knuckles. Ironically it was me who was deleted for pointing out that some posters had a remarkably similar turn of phrase…

When someone jumps in front of a train, do we say the train driver killed them?
Nope.

This whole thing was a tragic accident... and it is possible to feel sorry for the lady who sadly had a seizure and lost control of her car, and the children that died as a result.

Nope. The issue is culpability. If she had a seizure and she was unconscious throughout then she is not guilty of killling anyone. Or are you seriously suggesting that we go down the slippery slope of prosecuting people for having a health condition of which they were not aware before getting behind the wheel of a car? If so then no one on the planet should be allowed to drive.

Possibly because you can. You know you are innocent. You are wealthy and can afford to hire the best lawyers to help you prove it. And while I agree it’s unkind to describe as a ‘nut’ someone who would think that a wealthy person would pay off medics, and so insult the integrity of those medics, at the very least it demonstrates an unhealthy bias towards wealthy people.

Because it demonstrates prejudice towards an entire cohort of disabled people. But then I think you know that.

YANBU. I feel for her too but haven't spoken of it. She must be suffering in so many terrible ways. Obviously the poor little girls losing their lives so horrifically is heartbreaking too. The whole thing is one of the most appallingly sad accidents I've ever known of.

Why thank you for your kind description.

if we are going for insults anyone who thinks that having the money for a good solicitor makes no difference as to whether you are prosecuted or not is an idiot. Why the fuck would you bother paying for one otherwise!

Why would she have had any reason to think she shouldn’t have been driving ? It’s been said over and over again that this was a first seizure. She was unfortunate enough to experience it behind the wheel of a car. Many others have shared the same experience. If there had been no previous seizures there was no reason to think she shouldn’t drive. So now we have posters posturing that not only was she lying about the seizure to get out of prosecution, but she may have experienced prior seizures and not reported them. And FYI if I was wealthy and knew I had had a seizure and was helpless to prevent this tragedy, I would be engaging the best solicitors money could buy to help prove my innocence. Just when you think this thread couldn’t get any worse……………

People in the parents' position can't be expected to be sensible. Which is just as well, since they also have solicitors and presumably wouldn't want people drawing inferences from that.

Some of the other people coming out with that nonsense have no such excuse, however.