Unless Labour stand up to the public, we will never have functioning services

Are some people really arguing there hasn’t been a general shit to more entitled, self-centred behaviour? It’s clear in all areas, not just public services. Where do you all live that you haven’t seen this??

I run a reasonably well known public service. We've seen a rise in complaints about the standard of our service and I uphold them, because the service is not good enough- underfunding and short-staffing means we cannot meet demand. It is not acceptable and I agree and sympathise with the complaints.

There's also been a massive cultural shift in recent years which has seen people need more support. There is a mental health crisis going on which shows up either through people needing more support (they are suicidal, they can't function well enough to explain their issue or take in information) or it shows up as anger and unreasonableness (swearing, aggressiveness, demanding "reasonable" adjustments that are not- such as when a member for staff worked an hour beyond our closing time to support them, asking for an additional thing right at the end of the conversation and demanding it had to be done then as a reasonable adjustment when it was not a time sensitive issue and they were offered a call back the next day to complete it. They them swore and berated the adviser who went above and beyond to help them.)

This phenomenon has been observed throughout my network of similar services. We recognise the anger is stemming from unmet mental health needs, but it is exhausting and pushing already overwhelmed and over-worked staff to leave, compounding the issue of poor service as we are struggling to recruit due to working conditions and real term pay decreases. If the new government can put money into mental health support services I reckon it would help all public services.

You are incredibly misinformed

Unfortunately I agree that it is a symptom of poor systems and services.

The public are expected to put up with crap left right and centre. Useless NHS, poor quality schools, public services inadequate and so on.

The complaint is probably (wrongly) something more minor but the final straw and something they can do something about if they complain.

Whereas everything else they just have to suck up.

Personally if I had any job prospects elsewhere I would have emigrated already.

Generally speaking, I think it's a good thing that public servants are held more accountable nowadays. Obviously they shouldn't be harassed or threatened or insulted. And they should be properly funded. @Rainbowsponge when you said "But parents never used to email teachers because their child got into a minor scrap. They just didn’t. The expectation has massively increased." Do you think it's a good thing that teachers weren't questioned?

I'm not sure the government can do anything about that really. It's a matter of (unfortunate, I agree) societal shift to entitlement, I don't see there's anything that can be done, perhaps beyond school management messages, to tackle this.

I disagree. When I was a child if I got told off by a teacher I didn’t tell my parents as I would get another telling off.
Now it’s gone to the opposite extreme; a child is told off for talking in class they tell parents who storm up to the school and demand a full enquiry.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don’t think the wrongdoing among public servants is any greater than it has been. Police racism and corruption was far worse in the past; a few teachers have always had relationships with, or assaulted, pupils; there have always been brutal and wayward prison officers, etc.

In some cases a profession or job has degraded itself, like teachers, and to some extent doctors. The fire service is a great historical study in public service bolshiness. But in others it’s been a relentless dragging down by sections of the public.

Complaints on here about interventions and non-interventions by social workers and the family courts is one thing I roll my eyes about. The poor toilers in family services can’t win!

And we need more parents today hold teachers and school to account.

Who will be the arbiter deciding which are 'trivial or irrelevant complaints'?

The deep issues with education has been from teachers holding parents at arms length.
If your child is doing well this isn't an issue but if your child is struggling you need that dialogue.

We desperately need teachers to learn sen, we need proper Senco.

I think you are partly right op but others are right too. In some cases, it's understaffing and underpaying that is causing problems; minimum standards not being met, staff quiet quitting etc.In other cases it's entitlement: A kid gets a scratch while playing and a parents asks why she is being told at the end of the day, teacher should have called her immediately the scratch happened etc. Cue emails and admin burdens. This actually happened. The scratch was superficial and no more than an inch or two. In another case, a kid played on equipment in the local park clearly marked for adults only and got injured. Mum wrote lots of emails to LA, demanded equipment be removed and circulated a petition. Am sure it was frustrating for the understaffed LA.

This sneering attitude is the reason why people are reacting and voting Reform and in other more fractious ways. Stop with the sanctimonious attitude about what you feel you would deign to allow other people to complain about.

I wonder what you complain about that I would disagree with. Maybe your response about ‘woke’ being a reaction, not a whole load of time wasting nonsense that takes away from people having to actually get results. Let’s have a public service that does that and then let’s see whether or not complaints go down.

This absolutely makes sense.

It’d because there is no faith or trust in the systems. Rightly so in some cases.

Schools letting down Sen children because they don’t want to pay the first £££ before applying. Schools who excuse all behaviour behind Sen sorry Suzie keeps getting hurt but Sen/child in care 🤷🏻‍♀️

Doctors fobbing people off, took a friend months and many trips before she was taken seriously and refereed and ding ding stage 3 breast cancer.

People don’t trust the professionals or the process because it’s broken and have learnt they have to fight for what they need.

Grow a backbone? 😂
Have you wondered why teachers and public servants in general do not respond the way they surely wish they could?
It is definitely not because they lack a backbone…

It's difficult isn't it? The public do not respect public servants as they once did. People feel entitled to complain and insult teachers, police and NHS staff. There was no need to have security staff in A and E when I was a child. Parents just didn't go into schools except for parents evening. Teachers didn't get involved with friendship issues. It would be unheard of that a nurse or police officer would be attacked in the course of their duties. But equally we respected our public servants, the low pay doesn't attract the best candidates these days. Years ago, being a teacher, police officer or nurse was seen as a position of respect and authority. It was seen as a good job. No one wants to do these jobs anymore. Trying to change the public's mindset will be difficult. We've got to instill a sense of respect for our public servants but when we see reports of prison officers having sex with inmates, police officers raping women and teachers having relationships with pupils, it's understandable that the public have little respect.

I agree. The difficulty with the never ending calls for more money is that even if public services greatly improved (they wouldn’t, at least not at a price the country could conceivably afford), the customers would just demand yet more. And any reverse or temporary problem would attract the whingers in droves.

If people don’t pay, they see no reason to do their side of the bargain or accept limitations.

I'm afraid that we're going to have to agree to disagree on that 1

Is it Labour's job to tell teachers to grow a backbone and tell the parents to sod off?