Unless Labour stand up to the public, we will never have functioning services

I think that’s the problem, though, isn’t it? Complaining is now a way of life for many and petty or selfish complaints don’t reflect the numbers of genuine ones that go unreported.

And even if we spent everything on better services the complaints would just get more and more unreasonable. It’s a problem with people. Look at the FOI and data protection abusers: they’re a whole new squadron of time-consuming, resource-sapping arses.

Why on earth people won't give this new government more than five minutes to get to work before bleating their latest reason why Labour can't succeed is utterly beyond me.

No. For every trivial complaint/ concern, there is usually a legitimate one that someone will brush off as trivial.

Better to invest in appropriate staffing levels and training so the reasons for complaints are reduced.

Yes it does. But the majority of special schools have been closed under the guise of inclusion, without the funding moving to mainstream to meet the need.

I do feel that we as a nation pander to people's unrealistic expectations in a way I haven't seen in other countries. I definitely think that the squeaky wheel gets the first oil. The problem with this is that difficult people get treated with kid gloves, sometimes to the detriment of others who can't complain so effectively.

Post pandemic we saw the rise of what I would call the ‘Amazon prime parent’ - I want it and I want it now.
staggers me how little concept parents have about what schools can achieve and timescales required ( and god forbid the parents have to take responsibility)

It’s not just education- ring the GP and the phone message will remind you to be polite and that receptionists are doing the best they can

I have seen people in restaurants click their fingers at staff, look for any tiny reason to have a go at the young staff and so many try not to pay

Ask anyone in the ambulance service or police and they will have plenty of examples of being abused etc

People can get frustrated- we know that - but the public at large have basically been told they can have anything, they can have it with a bow on if they want - and if they don’t get it the public sector worker is deliberately blocking them.
Anyone been in A and E recently and seen nurses being spat at and sworn at ?

We need a reality check about exactly what the taxes raised in the country can actually fund and not believe in the magic money tree and bottomless pit.
Sometimes you don’t get everything you want - take a breath and treat people with respect

Which is exactly the point I was making. Not enough specialist staff to help with such a huge range of often conflicting needs and the ones who suffer the most are the children. Caused by underfunding much more than ‘ inadequate ‘ teaching.
I think we’re both saying the same thing here.
Schools and teaching have been decimated by the tories so here’s hoping Labour can start making steps to improve it.

@DeerOhDear where are these children “discretely leaving” to? Who is supervising them? You can’t have children just popping out and wandering off. No doubt the teacher would face the consequences of something happened to that child.

Didnt Tony Blair say this was one of his regrets of the time he was in government?

Or perhaps the teacher fears being judged if the child is allowed to colour in quietly as ‘all pupils must make progress in every lesson’. And they’ve been told that children can’t be out of class. There’s no money for coloured paper. And by this point some of the others are restless and throwing pencils. And yes then we have chaos and your average teacher decides they’ve had enough. Next week none of those children have a teacher, just an unqualified cover supervisor who doesn’t even have the minimum of training and doesn’t know any of the children or their needs.

@Nofilteratall and yet the teacher doesn't let child a quietly colour away even though it's regulating their emotions and keeping them quiet and concentrating so instead they are being disruptive. Child b should be able to flash a card and able to discretely leave the room to calm down but the teacher doesn't like this and makes a fuss and upsets child b who can't leave.. Child c needs colour paper and the teacher to repeat what they are saying just once to help them but the paper has been forgotten and the fact the child can't remember. And then we have chaos.

I think it's societal attitude - as said previously 'consumers not citizens'

We have become the worst sort of consumers - we want a wide choice of products, at low low prices (preferably free), we want them delivered instantly to our doorstep with us putting in no effort at all and if we don't like it then we expect to be able to send them back - with someone else paying the cost for our decisions.

I cannot imagine how any of us would cope if we returned to a time where if you wanted something you had to go out and find it yourself. There was likely limited choice and you would need to queue up and pay for it yourself. If you didn't like it rather than there being a fault then that was your problem.

We need to be better citizens, considering that we are one of many and when we take more than we need, we are preventing others from having anything at all.

This needs to come from the top though - we need fairer taxation of those who have way more than they need so we can ensure a basic level for all.

Agree @LittlePearDrop Also as a child of the 70s/80s when parenting was very lacklustre compared to today there would naturally be a lot less complaints as they barely noticed if you went to school let alone cared if there was an issue!

Public Sector employee here. I think it's great that people are empowered through smartphones etc to complain when we fail to meet the required standards.

I also think it's good that parents are standing up for their children more, but maybe that's because I work in safeguarding...

I don’t think Starmer will throw money at anything. The public (rightly) want functioning public services, but a lot of it isn’t about money.

I’m not sure enough people understand that your basic classroom teacher gets fairly minimum of training in specific SEN practices. That used to be fine. We had a proper SEN department, many PSA (TA) to support and a number of ‘special’ schools for children who needed more support than mainstream can generally give.
Now, the special schools have been closed because inclusion, the PSAs and SEN staff have been pared back to the bone and beyond. And your average basic teacher now has 15 average children, 5 with some SEN, 5 with pretty severe SEN and a handful with behaviour issues due to chaotic lives outside school. If they are lucky they might get a PSA/TA for an hour or two a week but mostly they are left to get on with it while being expected to provide all singing and dancing lessons full of challenge but also fully differentiated. To give enough attention to average child A who is trying to do their work and wants some help, child B who can’t read or write, child C who has English as an additional language and needs google translate to ask to go to the bathroom and child D who came to school upset and angry because mum was drunk last night and they had to go to grannies because dad wouldn’t answer the phone and this means they don’t have proper uniform or their PE kit and they got a detention for that so told the teacher to fuck off.
And all the other children in between.
Oh yes and your average classroom teacher gets judged as bad when they took 20 minutes to start the lesson due to trying to deal with all the different issues with no support.
Schools like the NHS are woefully underfunded (or funded in totally the wrong areas) Staff has been cut and cut while the needs get higher and higher.

If your salary is paid by the people who complain, it’s rather cheeky to demand the right not to listen to them if they’re unhappy. Don’t you think?

in some cases. From a school perspective, there are countless hours lost to investigating false claims of bullying and assault in schools - children who refuse to face up to their piss poor behaviour, bullies, abusers in the making, telling mum that a teacher assaulted them or pushed them or some child they’ve taken a dislike to has done something similar. Parents who refuse to hear that their little darling is a nasty piece of work, reaping havoc with other children’s education, not to mention their mental well being and sense of safety. They run our schools. Clever, untouchable because mum will always complain. The kind of people who ruin careers regardless of the fact that everyone in school knows the adult concerned did sod all.

These are the people OP is referring to. Not those who had a legitimate concern because a teacher isn’t following an exam spec or has called their child names or worse.

Of course @CandiedPrincess you should be hold people to account if you think it is necessary but many parents really need to learn what is actually really necessary when bothering school. Just remember there is a massive teacher shortage. Labour want to increase the number of teachers but there are not enough people who want to do the job. I left after 5 years and workload and behaviour of the kids had a lot to do with it but the final straw was the utterly petty interfering fussiness of one parent in particular. When contacting school you might be that teacher's last straw.

In my case the parent was fussing over a year 10 student when there was nothing really wrong and making demands over how I ran my classroom. The head over-ruled me and backed the parent (because the parent just would not let up, the to and fro went on for weeks). I resigned the next day but obviously saw out my notice (which is quite long for teachers, 2-3 months).*

Interestingly the class themselves were horrified and could not believe that the parent was being accomdated (it became common knowledge what was going on because it was to do with a visible aspect of classroom managment). They could see it was out of order and knew I had been undermined. "Well shady, Miss" as one of them said. (Very unfair, if you don't speak Lancs!)

The child in question got her predicated grade. There was no issue. Only one person applied to replace me in my role which was that of class teacher plus a whole school responsibility. I showed my replacement round after she had been appointed and she was stinking of drink at 10 in the morning. I hope the head was happy with his decision. And the parent whose younger child would be taught by this woman.

Silly, fussy, entitled parents are a major problem for teacher recruitment and retention. Because of the parents plus workload I have never taught again as I immediately changed career (starting a business). They could have had another 25 years out of me. I topped my class in teacher training, and had good feedback from the one Ofsted I experienced. I could stretch the bright kids and managed the bottom sets well too. I worked hard for all the kids and tried very hard to be fair and to take individuals into account as much as possible. I have a very good degree from a Russell group uni and had also have an MA and I was asked by the exam board to become a senior examiner for my subject. I was damn good at my job and enjoyed parts of it but I was also human.

I am still relieved the whole thing is over 20 years later. I still have nightmares about being in front of a class without their essays, or a lesson plan, etc. I am glad I did my five years. It made me a better parent at my child's school and probably a better person in interacting with all public services.

Remember this when you feel entitled to bug your teacher or school over every perceived little problem, every tiny bit of perceived unfairness (when a teacher has up to 35 kids to balance the needs of), every decision that does not go your way or tiny thing you don't like. You are chasing teachers out of the profession. You may say it is part of the job, and to a point it is, but you being right won't conjuror up someone to teach your child when there is no-one left to do the job. In some schools, in some subjects, in some areas, there is already no-one left.

*"you would be expected to give two months’ notice and in the summer term three months’ notice in order to leave your post at the end of the term." www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/conditions-of-service/teachers-notice-periods-resigning-from-your-job.html

Can we stick a review of FOIs in this as well.

I cannot stress how many man hours are thrown into these when the requirements to even phrase a question properly are so low.

It must be hundreds of full time jobs on these which could actually be improving services but as they are a legal requirement must be given priority.

There must be a more efficient system.

That’s awful!

Can you pay cash or by a bank transfer/direct debit?

I’d keep a log and evidence of every single payment you make in case they start using this as a reason to evict people. Hopefully, if the system is faulty, it will get exposed in court sooner or later.

You need to have proof that you have made the payment.

MN People in social housing are all on benefits and dont work
Also MN Social housing should only be for the most desperate

@rumnraisins Our HA is using a computer system that has parallels with Horizon.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5109616-to-think-social-housing-tenants-need-their-horizon-moment-and-lessons-have-not-been-learned?reply=136446947

Well, but it’s you who seems to have a problem with the fact that if you work in the public sector you should be answerable to the public. Not me.

So is this your argument? Or would you like to be able to dismiss everyone’s complaints as ‘trivial’ irrespective of the level of their contribution?

You are also funded by the taxpayer, just like the people on benefits.

So the only added value you produce is through the quality of the service you provide. Including to the people who are taxpayer funded. They get less money than you because they aren’t expected to produce any added value at this moment in time, whether it’s because they’re disabled or looking for work.