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To hope all the reform voters take a hard look in the mirror?

210 replies

Tukmgru · 05/07/2024 23:23

I have to wonder how you live with yourselves. It’s like you know you’re awful people, not just filled with spite and hate but also motivated by it. I genuinely am so baffled how you can sit here on this forum that is largely about supporting others through difficult times - perhaps you’ve found help and comfort in the various threads MN has to offer, and then you go ‘yep, fuck everyone else’.

My aunt was a BNP and then UKIP supporter, and a grifter par excellence throughout her life, and all of her arguments were the same as the arguments I’ve seen on here by Reform voters here. 4 million people went out there to declare ‘I’m a complete dickhead to everyone around me but want everyone to hand everything to me on a spoon’

Just fuck off.

(I’m not even a labour or green or whatever voter, I just think you’re awful people and deserve nothing but contempt)

OP posts:
tamade · 06/07/2024 08:13

there are those who suspect that Labour’s policy of VAT on private schools’ fees is motivated by spite.
I’d say it’s the premier example of political spite actually.

Remain are nothing to worry about for the moment, but if our powerful and spiteful government squeezes too many too hard then they will turn to these weird new political parties and that’s a potential problem for the future

Bushmillsbabe · 06/07/2024 08:12

Rather than bashing those who voted differently to you, it's important to look at why they made such an extreme choice.

It's a bit like Hitler/Nazi's- people assume he was a military dictator who took power by force. No, he was voted in to power in a fully democratic election, he was of course a despicable man, but people felt so disenfranchised, so desperate that they saw no other option than to vote him in. He maintained power by giving people handouts and cars (Volkswagen was originally his car company) and tvs and radios.

Reform came out of nowhere, only a few months old and managed to get nearly as many votes as the lib dems, which is really concerning. Only about 35% of voters actually voted for Labour, so the rest were either not convinced by them or so distanced politics that they didn't bother to vote. 50% of those who voted Labour didn't actually want them, they just didn't want the Tories back again. So that brings it down to only about 17% of the country strongly believe in labour. The rest either believe in someone else, just didn't want the Tories back or couldn't be bothered to vote. In this climate it wouldn't be hard for Reform to increase their vote share at the next election unless Labour make some pretty huge improvements to public services whilst not over-taxing the squeezed middle. KS has a monumental job ahead of him and I only hope he is up to the task.

cakecrew · 06/07/2024 08:12

Imustgoforarun · 06/07/2024 00:49

I didn’t vote reform. But if I lived in Birmingham and saw the abuse that Jess Philips got purely for being a white woman beating an independent standing for a non U.K. issue I too would vote reform. I sometimes think that a lot of us live in nice little safe bubbles. Just read some of the posts from women who live in Birmingham. Look at the poverty in Clacton. I disagree that anyone should be shamed for who they voted for. We live in a democracy and let’s keep it that way.

This! Only white are ratio racist?!

Triestre · 06/07/2024 08:10

What the hell? People can vote for whoever they want. Stop trying to silence the ones with different views. May be just analyse properly why people are voting for them.

StormingNorman · 06/07/2024 08:08

SharonEllis · 06/07/2024 07:56

We just voted in so many Labour MPs there isnt room on the government side to fit them all in, along with over 70 LDs. There are 4 Reform MPs. Farage is a monster but we are not sleepwalking into fascism.

Thank good for first past the post. 4 million people voted for them.

WrigglyDonCat · 06/07/2024 08:08

@Tukmgru

What is a bigot? Here are the first 4 definitions I came up with on Google.

Cambridge Dictionary:

"a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

Merriam-Webster:

"a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"

Dictionary.com:

"a person who is intolerant or hateful toward people whose race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc., is different from the person's own"

Collins:

"a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race"

I would suggest OP that while you have your lovely polished mirror out you take a look at yourself. Because you sound very much like a bigot from where I am sat. It always amuses me how many towards the left of the political spectrum self-congratulate on their amazing kind and tolerant beliefs whilst shouting racist, bigot, stupid at anyone who dares to hold a slightly different position (or calls their political opponents "scum" - looking at you Deputy Prime Minister...)

For what it's worth I very much dislike NFs presentation - he spends way too much time enjoying winding up people who disagree with him (and not in a particularly erudite fashion either) and not enough time actually developing his arguments, which while amusing for a minute or two soon becomes pretty tedious. If he put his mind to it he would be far more politically effective with a different style of discourse.

Doxxy17 · 06/07/2024 08:07

spuddy4 · 06/07/2024 00:36

Ah well because you are alright in your area I must be wrong. Funny how they all get sent to areas already deemed deprived until they are processed. I sincerely hope that Angela Rayner was telling the truth when she said that labour want to put them into every area of the UK while they figure out where they are going to live.

This!

Totally agree with you. Theres also a difference between immigrants and unvetted, young male asylum seekers couped up 2 to a room in a hotel for months / years. Which is what we have on our doorstep. Horrendous for them but also a negative impact on our already deprived town in terms of drain on mental health resources, fighting with each other, walking around in gangs at night and incidents (well documented and police involved) of harassing young girls.

I did not vote reform but dont be surprised as to why the people living with this shite on their doorsteps do.

mandymeans · 06/07/2024 08:06

Vikina · 06/07/2024 08:03

I'm not a reform voter but perhaps you should take a look in the mirror yourself and stop sneering at other people. We live in a democracy and people can choose to vote how they wish. Many people are utterly disillusioned by recent governance of this country.

You are no better than anyone else, full of hate.

Of course people can vote for who they wish. And rightly, nobody can stop them doing so. That doesn't stop it being a really horrible way to vote

marigoldandrose · 06/07/2024 08:05

Appalonia · 06/07/2024 00:39

I think a more helpful approach would be to try and understand just why SO many pp feel so unrepresented by the main political parties than just condemning them outright. If you scratched the surface, you'd probably find much more things in common. Like, wanting affordable housing, a functioning NHS, pp being worried about the cost of living, unease about the pace of change, feeling like politicians are out of touch, etc. Farage & Co are capitalising on these very real concerns and if the conventional parties don't have any tangible solutions, pp will be drawn to parties who seem to have answers.

Listening and dialogue are the.only solutions and your attitude is just contributing to the problem I'm afraid. ( I'm not a Reform supporter just for clarity, btw )

Completely agree and I did not vote reform either

SnapdragonToadflax · 06/07/2024 08:04

Devonbabs · 06/07/2024 07:46

I’m sorry you feel that way, but you also need to understand many British white people are also feeling pushed out of their own communities.,After decades living in one place we have had to move away
due to the high levels of immigrants moving into our area, people who have no intention of integrating. This destroyed the existing community, crime rose (esp youth violent knife crime) businesses were shutting because the new residents didn’t use them. Community events that had been long established stopped because all the new residents didn’t attend. Neighbours were only concerned about their own community so the long established neighbourly feel
disappeared. Schooling was disrupted by high levels of non-English speakers, they had bulge classes to cope with the higher than average numbers of children. These classes diluted the available teachers. Communities circulated housing close to the best schools within their community so no one else could get a place. Kids who had gone through primary school together were bussed 10-15 miles away as they couldn’t get into their catchment school. There were rising levels of open misogyny as women (esp white women) were seen as second class citizens. Locals are unable to secure housing. People vote for who fits their interests best. This is why people are voting Reform because they are the party willing to tackle this. The problem isn’t just people coming in on boats, it’s the lack of integration.

We have purposely moved to an area where this isn’t happening (yet). When we moved to this area we have set out to be involved with our new community as much as possible, using and supporting local business, attending local events. Changing to fit in with local culture.

And this is all the fault of the Tories for not managing integration. It is not the fault of the immigrants.

Vikina · 06/07/2024 08:03

I'm not a reform voter but perhaps you should take a look in the mirror yourself and stop sneering at other people. We live in a democracy and people can choose to vote how they wish. Many people are utterly disillusioned by recent governance of this country.

You are no better than anyone else, full of hate.

Devonbabs · 06/07/2024 08:02

CaravaggiosCat · 06/07/2024 07:55

Did you see the Jess Philips debacle. Is Reform your biggest concern and the only politics that makes you want to flee the country?
*Disclaimer, I didn't and would never vote Reform however after witnessing that nonsense, where I once would've judged someone who did I'm more inclined to be open minded as to why some people might.

This kind of misogyny is now common place in areas of Birmingham - it was one of the reasons we left.

Garlicnaan · 06/07/2024 08:00

LordPercyPercy · 06/07/2024 07:50

Sweden would be good. Social democracy, excellent quality of life, great schools, healthcare, parental leave, holiday, pay etc. Progressive on things like prison.

If I were you I'd look into that before going. Sweden has seen some rapid changes in the last decade. They have quite the gun crime problem.

The reality is that Europe is swinging hard to the right, due to immigration and poor economic outlook. US might be about to re-elect Trump.

There's always Canada I suppose.

Edited

They do but it's mostly confined to specific areas.

Numerous teenagers have been stabbed and killed in my town this year already, I think I'd accept the trade off.

There is a chance that Sweden will swing right in the next 5 - 10 years however anyway.

JarOfParts · 06/07/2024 07:59

mandymeans · 06/07/2024 07:57

I think one of the genuinely scary things about Reform/Nigel is that those that support him, more often than not, are quite passionate about what the party stands for (well what they think it stands for), and really believe in it. It gives them a sense of hope and a feeling of being heard. Whereas if you're a Conservative or Labour voter, it's usually a case of picking the one you least dislike

I don’t think your last statement is true in the slightest.

However, there as a lot of tactical voting in this election.

LakeTiticaca · 06/07/2024 07:59

Ah yet another keyboard warrior telling people what to think

Nige for Prime Minister 😆😆

mandymeans · 06/07/2024 07:57

I think one of the genuinely scary things about Reform/Nigel is that those that support him, more often than not, are quite passionate about what the party stands for (well what they think it stands for), and really believe in it. It gives them a sense of hope and a feeling of being heard. Whereas if you're a Conservative or Labour voter, it's usually a case of picking the one you least dislike

kikisparks · 06/07/2024 07:57

Fargo79 · 05/07/2024 23:29

What's the point of this? I am not a Reform supporter and am entirely ideologically opposed to almost everything they stand for. But insulting and shaming people has never been an effective tool for changing their mindsets. Do you think that anyone who voted Reform would read this and recognise themselves in your description? Or care about the opinion of someone who is speaking to them like that? Or be motivated to change their opinions or world view?

If you genuinely want other people to share your outlook, this isn't the way to achieve that. If anything, it will have the opposite effect.

This, exactly.

SharonEllis · 06/07/2024 07:56

StormingNorman · 05/07/2024 23:28

Yep. Nigel Farage is the second coming of Oswald Moseley and we are sleep walking into fascism.

We just voted in so many Labour MPs there isnt room on the government side to fit them all in, along with over 70 LDs. There are 4 Reform MPs. Farage is a monster but we are not sleepwalking into fascism.

Devonbabs · 06/07/2024 07:56

RabbitsRock · 06/07/2024 07:41

I think some people just vote for whoever as they don’t really understand the various parties’ manifestos. Someone I know( not well) admitted that politics bores them. They voted Reform. In some cases, folks were voting tactically to get the Tories out. I came across a very interesting blogger who gave a list of areas & the party to vote for to help remove The Conservatives. In my area it was Labour. I had considered voting Green but ended up voting Labour after listening to the blog.
I remember a similar situation with Brexit. No clue what any of it meant or whether it was best to vote in or out. Can’t even remember which way I voted now. So OP I wouldn’t be too quick to judge.

My DH voted Labour “ because we need a change” has absolutely zero knowledge of any of their policies. I suspect, like you say many people voted for many of the parties for this reason

CaravaggiosCat · 06/07/2024 07:55

Hillary17 · 06/07/2024 00:49

It genuinely made me feel sick to see how many people voted Reform. Disgusting, uneducated and vile stance. If they gain more influence in the next ten years I’ll do everything in my power to leave the country!

Did you see the Jess Philips debacle. Is Reform your biggest concern and the only politics that makes you want to flee the country?
*Disclaimer, I didn't and would never vote Reform however after witnessing that nonsense, where I once would've judged someone who did I'm more inclined to be open minded as to why some people might.

Flowers4me · 06/07/2024 07:54

I was pretty shocked to see how many people voted Reform but I wouldn't shame them for voting differently to me. We live in a democracy and everyone is free to vote whoever they want. If you don't agree with how someone has voted, perhaps try and understand why instead of hating them.

JarOfParts · 06/07/2024 07:53

Iffx · 05/07/2024 23:47

I doubt anyone who voted Reform is ashamed.

If I need to vote Reform to get Starmer out next time, I’ll do it.

You’d vote for misogyny and racism just to get rid of Keir Starmer?

Jifmicroliquid · 06/07/2024 07:53

Threads like this only serve to prove that this country is full of bitter, uneducated idiots who can’t accept that people have different perspectives and live different lives.

FWIW, I didn’t vote reform. But people who did have seen something in their policies that align with them.
Perhaps they are living in an area where illegal immigrants are being housed and they are seeing the problems caused by this (I am in one such area), perhaps they like Reforms policies about education and the NHS.

OP, the world does not revolve around YOU, YOUR life and YOUR experiences.

The amount of hatred I am reading from people who can only see things through their own eyes is extremely concerning.

Billyballyboo · 06/07/2024 07:52

YarsidokaLoafer · 06/07/2024 07:47

Reform supporters aren't generally known for their high intellect. My kindest assumption about these voters is that most aren't aware of the odious underlying ideology of the party they chose to cast their vote for. .

I'll voted Reform and am doing a doctorate.

OneReformedCharacter · 06/07/2024 07:52

YarsidokaLoafer · 06/07/2024 07:47

Reform supporters aren't generally known for their high intellect. My kindest assumption about these voters is that most aren't aware of the odious underlying ideology of the party they chose to cast their vote for. .

This says more about you than it does them.

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