To hope all the reform voters take a hard look in the mirror?

This! I've lived with uncontrolled immigration and like a pp got pushed out of my local community. Everywhere I went - the local shops, buses, GP waiting room, I never got chatting to anyone, never had the feeling of being part of a community because I was surrounded by non English speakers.
It was fucking miserable and we eventually decided to move. I voted Reform and won't be fucking off anywhere. I'm entitled to my opinion.

There does need to be accountability for people's decisions. Calling Reform racist is a fair criticism- everything they do is to stop immigrants, but the focus is mainly on Muslim immigrants.
Their plans were to shoot the boats/not rescue them/send them back to France (which they can't do anyway). So basically, unless we kill them, no answers.
They promised everything- free tuition, pay rises - it only takes a step in thinking to say how will they pay for this. One more step to listen to NF who said he wants to privatise the NHS. He knows those voting for him generally will not look this far into things, but these are most likely the people who can least afford to pay for NHS.
Another example would be look at NF's friends, do we really want to be Trumps friend, do we want to be Russia's friend?
So whilst 'people are thick' who vote Reform isn't always the case, I struggle to understand if people know this information and still vote or if they don't look behind the headline then that will suggest a level of ignorance. Similarly I would say not all people who voted reform are racist, but I imagine that all racists would find their home as Reform.
Be careful about protest votes, that's how we ended up with the utter shambles of Brexit!

"4 million people went out there to declare ‘I’m a complete dickhead to everyone around me"

Tbf the votes are confidential, so unless they told people who they voted for, or the truth, no one would know.

E.g. my close pal voted Reform, so she tells me, but she's telling everyone else she voted Labour 🤷‍♀️

If we’re sleepwalking into fascism it is in part due to the holier than thou attitude of the left. The constant insults and lack of discussion have contributed to this.

If we had a government and opposition that weren’t incompetent the hard discussions would have been had.

In some areas of the country immigration is a problem, but no one can talk about it or they’re immediately called racist. This has paved the way for Farage to come in, and he has appealed to Tory voters who are jaded (understandably) by the state of Conservatives but can’t bring themselves (also understandably) to vote for Labour.

Farage has been able to take advantage of the lack of discussion to talk clearly about three big things - the NHS (as it stands it cannot continue much longer, and a French style private system seems inevitable), women’s rights (other parties cannot say what a woman is, Tories can but have fudged the issue for over a decade), and immigration (remember the Rotherham scandal?). If other parties had given air time to these issues maybe Reform wouldn’t have had the opportunity to get on the ladder.

Unless Labour magically starts discussing these things I predict that by the next election either Reform will have a much bigger following, and/or conservatives will move harder right to meet them. I can’t see Labour being anything other than disastrous after a brief respite and that will contribute to a harder right trajectory.

Before Brexit (another holier than thou shitshow) I read an article showing how history repeats itself, and it basically predicted what’s happening now, and that for the most part humans are too tribal and closed minded to make the changes to stop it.

I’ve always considered myself a lefty, but Labour and the sanctimonious behaviour of their supporters have lost me this time. I’m now genuinely politically homeless.

Sweden is not exactly immune from anti-immigration sentiments. A huge increase in gun crime since levels of immigration soared is a big cause of concern.

I have a close Swedish friend in Stockholm - she lived in the U.K. for over 20 years. Other things she’s told me that may come as a surprise to many, is that with very few exceptions, there is a charge for GP visits, ditto for visits to A&E, and there’s a charge for the ‘board’ element of hospital stays. Plus nearly everyone pays something for prescriptions - even her dad of over 90 did, and he was not well off.
The charges are all relatively small, but the U.K. model of ‘free at the point of use’ does not exist in what is popularly supposed to be a socialist Utopia.

Perhaps the poster doesn’t have time to volunteer working long hours in minimum wage to live in a bed sit. Again volunteering is traditionally a very middle class activity for those that have the time and the means.

It was Hilary Clinton calling millions of people deplorables that cost her the election.

I know people who voted reform. They are intelligent, kind, hard working people. Some are woman who are concerned about woman’s rights Instead of insulting them - find out why they voted that way. What is it that speaks to them? If we could have a conversation as opposed to slinging insults we might all get somewhere.

(for the record - I did not vote reform)

People voted for Reform because they didn’t want to vote Labour and they wanted the Tories out. It says a lot about people not really wanting Labour to run the country.

Are you telling them to be kind?

Agree with this. Your post illustrates perfectly why many did vote Reform.
Righteous, self-congratulary, smug and faux naivety. The full set.

‘They’ don’t work and ‘we’ do.

What, none of them work at all, but the white British all work? Really? Hmmm. What town is this?

“ the people who actually built this place and whose families have lived here for centuries‘

If families stay in the same place for ‘centuries’ no wonder you feel as if you’re falling behind. This is the definition of inertia.

I understand your frustration. I'm also horrified and quite sad. Though I'm not sure if posts like this help, or if they just widen the division.

I think that Reform ultimately offer simple "solutions" to very complicated and nuanced issues, and that appeals to an angry subset of the populace who no longer feel represented by the mainstream parties. I am sure some of those people genuinely read and understood Reform's full manifesto and were in agreement (not something I can personally understand on any level, but we're all different and entitled to an opinion). I suspect plenty didn't, and just heard "no more immigrants" and that was sufficient for them.

I hope Labour do a good job and over time the division in our society can be reduced. It does feel frightening though. We know where we can end up when the far right are legitimised...

I stopped reading The Mirror years ago.

I live in an area where there are lots of refugees who aren’t integrating. They mix with each other but not with the rest of the town. It’s split the community in half. We now have a whole new community of people within our own home town who want nothing to do with us, the people who actually built this place and whose families have lived here for centuries. There’s also a lot of resentment because they don’t work and we do. I didn’t personally vote reform but I can understand why others did.

I didn’t vote reform but can absolutely understand why some people did, especially in certain areas. In fact, you’d have to be quite thick not to understand this.

On top of that Farage is an excellent public speaker let’s be honest - he was much better than any of the others at the election debate and is always clear, calm and confident during interviews. I can totally see why people would vote for him.

It’s that comment that would make me vote reform. How dare you judge people’s intellect by who they vote. Perhaps try to understand why 4m people voted reform. Perhaps read about Birmingham where next election, Labour will not win and you will have an independent standing for non local/U.K. racist issues. Perhaps read about non integration, schools totally over whelmed by non English speakers. Then judge again. I certain am worried that in 20 years time, women will not walk around some areas in the U.K.

Genuine question (as I had a very similar experience to the person you were replying to) how does a government promote integration from Westminster?

My 3 year old daughter was excluded in the local playpark for being white, I was called a shut for wearing knee length shorts in summer, my older daughter experienced racist abuse at school and children talked in community languages in the playground so she was left out. So yes, we did same and moved

I find the policies of reform utterly abhorrent and I still reckon Farage himself has been bankrolled by Putin for decades - and one day it will all come out.

However, it's all very easy to have liberal attitudes when you're safe and cosy and your job isn't under threat. There are still towns where you can walk down the high street feel threatened by gangs of kids on street corners or lingering in bus stations whose culture may not have be as supportive of women's freedom, say - relatively speaking - as ours. I grew up in a pretty multicultural area - lots of Indian, Italian, Pakistani and Chinese people, quite a few folk from Eastern Europe, even a good percentage of UK born Caucasians. And while it was rough, I didn't feel the need to make myself invisible if I needed to pop to the corner shop for a load of bread after dusk. Now I wouldn't even stay in a hotel there, it is so intimidating.

One of the major issues with the current immigration system is that there are very few legal affordable routes and once here many are not allowed to work. Officially anyway. Hence the hanging about.

So, while I don't agree with Reform, I do understand why they appeal to some people. In addition they are focused on LOCAL issues, not things that are, for most people, utterly abstract and far away, like climate change or what's going on in London.

I may be worried about the rise of the ultra right wing - across much of the world, not just here - but it's not like the Tories have been a bastion of centrist thinking for a long, long time. I will always look back at this election as the time when, finally, the right wing vote was split enough to give other parties a chance. The vote on the left has always been split, that's part of the problem.

Now if we can only hope that Proportional Representation is introduced this time round, we might stand a future chance of a parliament slightly more representative of the actual population, not mostly White Oxbridge via Eton, Winchester, and Cheltenham Ladies College.

And if the Lib Dems can avoid any more stupid rose garden bromances and ludicrous alliances with awful in laws they might finally go back to being a viable alternative at some point. Not that I'd trust them not to turn coat again though...

YABU. Some Reform voters are as you describe, but I think the majority of them feel utterly disenfranchised and fed up with working long hours to live in squalor and survive on food bank donations. Same with Brexit: a vote against a system that grinds them down. Same with buying a lottery ticket: having a small sliver of hope even when the odds are miniscule.

Writing all Reform voters off as racist thickos fails to acknowledge the very real societal problems caused by the stark inequality in this country.

Edited to add: I also think that Farage is a very dangerous man. The new Labour government will need to improve people's lives ASAP to squash him.

Its one of the reasons I dont support electoral reform. It leads to splintering & instability.

You could volunteer in the community to help others.

Anybody who happily voted for a "party" that didn't allow it's members to vote on a leader or on it's manifesto....ooops sorry "contract", thinks Farage will actually do any work as an MP and believes that a "party" run by millionaires is "anti-establishment", is quite frankly, deluded.

There are millions of people in the U.K. who are living in poverty - damp and inadequate housing, poorly educated, poor diet and health, stuck in low paid work. This is precisely where Farage places himself. He knows that where people feel disaffected and left behind, it’s human nature to want to blame something or someone. Farage exploits this. It’s the ‘they’re taking all our jobs’ mentality - it’s easier to point the finger than to take responsibility for the fact you haven’t got the life you think you should have. Extremism breeds amid generational poverty.

The sad thing is, Farage despises those in poverty and the poorly educated. He just manipulates them as vote fodder.

It’s very easy isn’t it to stand there and proclaim you will ‘take the country back.’ Reform say they will ‘turn the boats back to France.’ Ok. But they have to actually find the boats first! What are they going to do - have police permanently floating at regular intervals in the channel?

Once migrants have got to Calais it’s too late really. It’s far too simplistic to just say ‘send them back to France.’ Illegal migration is only going to increase as climate change takes hold - it’s a global issue that’s going to require global solutions (or part-solutions) - not silly quip populist headlines.

Here’s Farage claiming he is a ‘man of the people.’ What an utter joke. He wants to give tax breaks to people who use private schools ffs! How many people in Jayswick use private schools?

Do people who voted for Farage seriously think he could actually live among them for 5 minutes - once the cameras stop rolling? Will he be purchasing a chalet or other crap housing in his constituency now he has his seat? Or will he just stride in, inane grin like the Cheshire Cat as usual - but in reality he’s just holding his nose for the cameras. He despises the ‘little people’ (as he refers to them). It’s all carefully-curated photo-ops in a pub with a pint and a bit of flag waving with the elderly. That’s literally all he has to offer. He doesn’t have to offer realistic or ‘fact checked’ policies because he’ll never have to put them into practice.

The man was educated at Dulwich College and he was a nasty piece of work there. He has no plan for anyone other than himself. How people can see through him, I don’t know. He is truly vile. Fascist in a red waistcoat with a pint.

It always amuses me how many towards the left of the political spectrum self-congratulate on their amazing kind and tolerant beliefs whilst shouting racist, bigot, stupid at anyone who dares to hold a slightly different position (or calls their political opponents "scum" - looking at you Deputy Prime Minister...)

Agree with that @WrigglyDonCat

Did lecturing and insulting someone ever change their mind?

I live in an area with very high levels of small boat arrivals which has cause a lot of bad feeling and the outgoing tories couldn't give a fuck. There was NO effort to help locals understand or become comfortable with the idea that we essentially have a large refugee camp right in the middle of our small residential area and no thought given to all the issues that can cause -for the local people and also for the residents of the camp who have nothing to do all day apart from hang around outside supermarkets and in parks and smoke weed. No extra support given to local services such as GPs or dentists. No attempt to help these people integrate other than what a couple of charities organise. For years my deprived part of the country has taken large numbers of low skilled immigrating people and asylum seekers who don't/can't integrate. They don't get settled in cosy cotswold villages, they get sent here.

It's no wonder people in my area voted reform because we have large groups of young men who don't speak English wandering around aimlessly, and a right wing media who tells the families around here that these men are a danger.

I haven't got a problem with the asylum seekers, every one I've seen while out walking has either kept himself to himself or has attempted to practice his English with me. Seem like nice guys. I've had more issues with and feel more nervous around groups of white English men. I voted labour. Hopefully they make good on their promise and deal with asylum applications quickly so these people can stop just existing in limbo in accomodation that's one little step above a prison camp. The residents of the camp and the local area have all been failed by the Tories.

Branding every reform voter as racist and stupid is lazy and shows an astounding lack of critical thinking.