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Original poster

Wales what's the point in voting when it's devolved

92 replies

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 14:38

What is the point? So many family and friends aren't bothering because it's irrelevant to Wales. Nobody gives a toss in Westminster.

OP posts:
cardibach · 04/07/2024 17:10

KimberleyClark · 04/07/2024 17:07

Jim Callaghan was MP for Cardiff South and Penarth though he wasn’t actually Welsh.

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And? Lots of MPs don’t originally come from the area which they represent. If they move there and take an interest in local affairs as well as national ones and do a good job for the constituents there’s no issue really.

cardibach · 04/07/2024 17:08

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 17:05

I keep my beak out of other constituencies because their issues are theirs alone

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There’s lots of constituencies not 8n Wales I have hopes for, because I’m thinking about what I’d like the calibre of politicians in both government and opposition to be. But then I’m engaged in politics generally.
Its really odd to categorise being interested in what might happen in another part of the country as ‘sticking your beak in’.

KimberleyClark · 04/07/2024 17:07

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 17:03

Lloyd George was a liberal over a century ago

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Jim Callaghan was MP for Cardiff South and Penarth though he wasn’t actually Welsh.

Original poster
justasking111 · 04/07/2024 17:05

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:50

Who has insisted anything? Saying you would like something to happen or you hope it does isn’t insisting. It doesn’t seem to be just U.K. politics you are having trouble understanding.

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I keep my beak out of other constituencies because their issues are theirs alone

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Original poster
justasking111 · 04/07/2024 17:03

Bobbotgegrinch · 04/07/2024 16:51

You realise the labour party have had a Welsh Prime Minister from a Welsh constituency don't you?

I'd say that's "getting picked"

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Lloyd George was a liberal over a century ago

OP posts:
Brandonsflowers · 04/07/2024 16:58

Surely vote for Plaid Cymru then?

I've had plenty of tat through my door from Reform about immigration. Although I do live in a part of Wales that once had a branch of the English Defence Legue (I shit you not) and voted for Brexit.

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:57

Bobbotgegrinch · 04/07/2024 16:51

You realise the labour party have had a Welsh Prime Minister from a Welsh constituency don't you?

I'd say that's "getting picked"

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Who? Lloyd George was a Liberal. Ramsey MacDonald and Callaghan both represented Welsh constituencies for at least part of their careers but one was a Scot, the other from Portsmouth.

Bobbotgegrinch · 04/07/2024 16:51

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 16:41

They don't tend to get picked is what I meant.

I've blushed for many a Welsh secretary over the decades because they just seem not to want to be there.

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You realise the labour party have had a Welsh Prime Minister from a Welsh constituency don't you?

I'd say that's "getting picked"

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:50

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 16:49

Okay but I think it's high handed to insist someone who lives in Colwyn bay to remove Tories from Carmarthen and vice versa
.

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Who has insisted anything? Saying you would like something to happen or you hope it does isn’t insisting. It doesn’t seem to be just U.K. politics you are having trouble understanding.

Original poster
justasking111 · 04/07/2024 16:49

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:47

I’m assuming replace them with someone not Tory? The Welsh Tories come off as rather anti Wales a lot of the time as well as other issues with Tories in general. It’s ok for someone to want Tories not to get in in places they don’t live in. They can’t influence it, but they can have a preference.

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Okay but I think it's high handed to insist someone who lives in Colwyn bay to remove Tories from Carmarthen and vice versa
.

OP posts:
cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:49

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:48

I'd love to see proper devolution across the UK - a federal system. Leave Whitehall just with Defence, Foreign Affairs and a few other items of national importance and devolve the rest down to a local level. That means regional autonomy across different parts of England too. It works elsewhere.

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Absolutely.

Mynewnameis · 04/07/2024 16:49

Jo Stevens gets my vote and as someone said above is likely to make cabinet.

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:48

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:44

I’m not sure really. Just there must be some way to give them more teeth. Like I say though, I’m not sure cutting our losses and moving on from the Union isn’t a better plan.

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I'd love to see proper devolution across the UK - a federal system. Leave Whitehall just with Defence, Foreign Affairs and a few other items of national importance and devolve the rest down to a local level. That means regional autonomy across different parts of England too. It works elsewhere.

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:47

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 16:45

What would you replace them with. Do you have homes in all of these places?

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I’m assuming replace them with someone not Tory? The Welsh Tories come off as rather anti Wales a lot of the time as well as other issues with Tories in general. It’s ok for someone to want Tories not to get in in places they don’t live in. They can’t influence it, but they can have a preference.

Original poster
justasking111 · 04/07/2024 16:45

Arlanymor · 04/07/2024 16:16

I am hoping that Wales gets rid of the blue... including Carmarthen, Colwyn Bay and other strongholds.

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What would you replace them with. Do you have homes in all of these places?

OP posts:
cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:44

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:42

What extra functions would you have the Welsh Secretary perform these days? Most of what they used to be responsible for is now devolved.

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I’m not sure really. Just there must be some way to give them more teeth. Like I say though, I’m not sure cutting our losses and moving on from the Union isn’t a better plan.

Original poster
justasking111 · 04/07/2024 16:43

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:42

What extra functions would you have the Welsh Secretary perform these days? Most of what they used to be responsible for is now devolved.

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It's a poisoned chalice perhaps?

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OrwellianTimes · 04/07/2024 16:43

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:38

We certainly don't want the high marginal rates now in place in Scotland.

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Nope. This is one part of devolution that I don’t think is good.

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:42

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:18

Why not change it so it is not toothless rather than abolishing?

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What extra functions would you have the Welsh Secretary perform these days? Most of what they used to be responsible for is now devolved.

Original poster
justasking111 · 04/07/2024 16:41

Bobbotgegrinch · 04/07/2024 16:24

What on earth makes you think Welsh MPs can't be in the cabinet?

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They don't tend to get picked is what I meant.

I've blushed for many a Welsh secretary over the decades because they just seem not to want to be there.

OP posts:
Amimaimia · 04/07/2024 16:39

The way funding works means that the decisions in Westminster have a direct effect on the money Wales have.

Plaid Cymru have made the point that the money spent on HS2 has come out of the “England and Wales” budget and yet not an inch of it is within Wales. That is billions of pounds that I should be allowed a voice on.

I’d say the biggest thing is that whilst we remain one economic block, one national debt, one inflation rate, one GDP; I should get a say in the decisions made in London. A single decision by Liz Truss added £800 to my mortgage every month. There’s lots of other indirect effects but that is one very bloody clear and effects my day to day life hugely.

I am bothered that Wales has lost some voice this year with the electoral commission boundary changes.

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:38

OrwellianTimes · 04/07/2024 16:12

They can raise or lower the rate of income tax by a certain percentage as I understand. So instead of being 20% over personal allowance it could be 17% or 23%

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We certainly don't want the high marginal rates now in place in Scotland.

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:24

Arlanymor · 04/07/2024 16:22

Because no single government since I have been alive (45 years) has done anything to make it a functioning government department. It's literally THE reason why we have devolution (albeit limited in functionality).

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I’m nearly 60, and I know what you mean. But if we are going to stay tied to Westminster, then I’d like to agitate for more influence for the Welsh Sec.
Edit: that’s a fairly big IF from where I’m sitting.

Bobbotgegrinch · 04/07/2024 16:24

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 15:26

I don't think that the English realise how Welsh MPs work. National policy just isn't mentioned.

To be fair. Welsh MPs don't sit in the cabinet so their influence is minimal. Don't know if Scots and Irish do either to be honest.

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What on earth makes you think Welsh MPs can't be in the cabinet?

Arlanymor · 04/07/2024 16:23

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:22

Ah. Fair point. I’m with you on Plaid too - I’ve hung on in there with a Labour membership etc so far but after the election I may resign and join Plaid.

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I definitely don't feel we are arguing with each other! I think we are frustrated and both believe in democracy in Wales very strongly!

And I like chatting with you about these things on here!