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Original poster

Wales what's the point in voting when it's devolved

92 replies

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 14:38

What is the point? So many family and friends aren't bothering because it's irrelevant to Wales. Nobody gives a toss in Westminster.

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Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 15:59

KimberleyClark · 05/07/2024 15:36

I think I’d misunderstood your point earlier. But I do think that Westminster cannot pass legislation that would affect Wales in a devolved area without the Senedd agreeing to it in a vote in Plenary session.

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Fair play, thanks for saying that, but it’s usually the other way around from the scenario you have outlined. The relationship is fraught and reinterpreted regularly. And not by Wales.

KimberleyClark · 05/07/2024 15:36

Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 15:04

Google exists if you can be bloody bothered. But I have provided an example for the terminal lazy of thinking.

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I think I’d misunderstood your point earlier. But I do think that Westminster cannot pass legislation that would affect Wales in a devolved area without the Senedd agreeing to it in a vote in Plenary session.

Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 15:06

@justasking111 Also hurrah, what did I say about blue in Wales? Came true didn’t it. I don’t get why you are nasty.

Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 15:04

KimberleyClark · 05/07/2024 14:27

Can you give any examples?

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Google exists if you can be bloody bothered. But I have provided an example for the terminal lazy of thinking.

Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 15:02

justasking111 · 05/07/2024 14:29

That would be illuminating

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So would you responding to my earlier post I guess.

Coffeerum · 05/07/2024 14:35

Wales what's the point in voting when it's devolved

Is it news to you that it’s not only Wales that is devolved?

PTSDBarbiegirl · 05/07/2024 14:34

All devolved powers are block granted in Westminster. Since 100% of the tax raised in Wales is paid to England, processed and some sent back to fund devolved departments Wales need representatives to push for the tax & grants to be fairer which currently they aren't.

Original poster
justasking111 · 05/07/2024 14:29

KimberleyClark · 05/07/2024 14:27

Can you give any examples?

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That would be illuminating

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KimberleyClark · 05/07/2024 14:27

Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 14:14

They absolutely can and do regularly.

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Can you give any examples?

cardibach · 05/07/2024 14:26

justasking111 · 05/07/2024 14:20

I do understand, two friends are assembly members so have explained how it works.

Our senedd are more civilised than Westminster, more respect for other members.

Westminster could learn from us about civil interaction.

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I don’t disagree. But there’s no ‘overruling’ involved which is wha5 I was replying to.

Original poster
justasking111 · 05/07/2024 14:20

cardibach · 05/07/2024 14:14

Eh? I have no idea what this means. You really don’t seem to understand the system. Westminster decides on non-devolved matters. Senedd decides on devolved matters. No overruling in either direction.

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I do understand, two friends are assembly members so have explained how it works.

Our senedd are more civilised than Westminster, more respect for other members.

Westminster could learn from us about civil interaction.

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cardibach · 05/07/2024 14:14

justasking111 · 05/07/2024 14:11

I don't think that Westminster MPs can override our senedd now.

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Eh? I have no idea what this means. You really don’t seem to understand the system. Westminster decides on non-devolved matters. Senedd decides on devolved matters. No overruling in either direction.

Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 14:14

justasking111 · 05/07/2024 14:11

I don't think that Westminster MPs can override our senedd now.

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They absolutely can and do regularly.

Original poster
justasking111 · 05/07/2024 14:11

Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 13:26

@justasking111 And we achieved the first point. Almost like I know my own country!!

I don't think that Westminster MPs can override our senedd now.

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Arlanymor · 05/07/2024 13:26

@justasking111 And we achieved the first point. Almost like I know my own country!!

Arlanymor · 04/07/2024 18:29

cardibach · 04/07/2024 17:34

But that’s all the post you took issue with said. That the poster hoped they’d get rid of the Tories.

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Exactly! @justasking111 What are you taking exception to?

  1. I want the Tories out of Wales entirely - doesn’t matter where I live in Wales for that to be a valid issue.
  2. Do I own homes in Carmarthen and Colwyn? No, but I don’t have to in order to have an opinion. Have I lived in both Carmarthen and Colwyn in the past? Yes! Do I have family/friends who live in both places now? Yes!

I am not ignorant of the challenges in different places across the country. My current job is pan-Wales and I work for a charity concerned with communities in deprivation. I drove 759 miles last week to talk to people across Wales.

You don’t have to agree with my politics but to somehow think I don’t have a right to speak on Wales as a whole is nuts. I would rather we kicked out a party who have never been shown to give a crap about Cymru. You don’t have to agree with me, but to suggest I am not allowed to have a view on politics across the whole of Wales because I live in Swansea is not only wrong but everything that is wrong with society too - you are allowed to care about people living in other parts of your country who are in desparate straits and where the blue rosettes have done nothing for them.

Original poster
justasking111 · 04/07/2024 18:27

Just watched a piece on Port Talbot steelworks. That's so sad. Tata have had so much money, made so many promises that just haven't worked out.

We do need some inward investment for employment in the short term as well as a long term plan.

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Arlanymor · 04/07/2024 18:21

cardibach · 04/07/2024 18:18

Or that we have a better GDP per head than more than one EU country…

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Indeed! Don’t get me started! Have just seen the OP challenge me on something so let me gird my loins because it’s just nuts…

Arlanymor · 04/07/2024 18:20

DdraigGoch · 04/07/2024 16:48

I'd love to see proper devolution across the UK - a federal system. Leave Whitehall just with Defence, Foreign Affairs and a few other items of national importance and devolve the rest down to a local level. That means regional autonomy across different parts of England too. It works elsewhere.

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100% - federalism is the way forward, would make Cornwall happy too!

cardibach · 04/07/2024 18:18

Arlanymor · 04/07/2024 18:16

Yep, totally see your point and it makes sense. Although I think it’s a one way street for us now though. How much longer do they need to demonstrate and acknowledge that Wales is a valuable part of the Union?

When Rishi said: “I’m going to carry on calling it Brecon Beacons”… well done on being tone deaf, snide and generally connoting the point that Welsh culture means nothing to Westminster. Barnett formula (even Barnett is embarrassed by it), HS2, all overlooking and treating us like second class citizens. No acknowledgement that we are the second best in the world for recycling, or that we are aiming to become the world’s first Nation of Sanctuary… no we are the halfwits the other side of the bridge who twang harps and spit when we speak…

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Or that we have a better GDP per head than more than one EU country…

Arlanymor · 04/07/2024 18:16

cardibach · 04/07/2024 16:24

I’m nearly 60, and I know what you mean. But if we are going to stay tied to Westminster, then I’d like to agitate for more influence for the Welsh Sec.
Edit: that’s a fairly big IF from where I’m sitting.

Edited
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Yep, totally see your point and it makes sense. Although I think it’s a one way street for us now though. How much longer do they need to demonstrate and acknowledge that Wales is a valuable part of the Union?

When Rishi said: “I’m going to carry on calling it Brecon Beacons”… well done on being tone deaf, snide and generally connoting the point that Welsh culture means nothing to Westminster. Barnett formula (even Barnett is embarrassed by it), HS2, all overlooking and treating us like second class citizens. No acknowledgement that we are the second best in the world for recycling, or that we are aiming to become the world’s first Nation of Sanctuary… no we are the halfwits the other side of the bridge who twang harps and spit when we speak…

cardibach · 04/07/2024 17:34

justasking111 · 04/07/2024 17:13

I can have hopes for them but realistically I don't and can't know the challenges that they face

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But that’s all the post you took issue with said. That the poster hoped they’d get rid of the Tories.

Original poster
justasking111 · 04/07/2024 17:13

cardibach · 04/07/2024 17:08

There’s lots of constituencies not 8n Wales I have hopes for, because I’m thinking about what I’d like the calibre of politicians in both government and opposition to be. But then I’m engaged in politics generally.
Its really odd to categorise being interested in what might happen in another part of the country as ‘sticking your beak in’.

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I can have hopes for them but realistically I don't and can't know the challenges that they face

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WellwellwellInever · 04/07/2024 17:13

RickyBobbysKFC · 04/07/2024 14:41

Vote for the candidate who can best represent you. The MPs who give a toss in Westminster are the Welsh MPs people vote for. Unless they are shit- then they need to be voted out.

Exactly. They are our voice and what happens in WM affects us all!!

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